Kubota d1105 starter advice

[ElectricLee13]

Hey all, long time reader, first time poster. I recently picked up a Toro groundsmaster 7200, has a Kubota d1105. It has a litany of issues I'm chasing so I'm sure I'll be asking more, but here's my current problem.

The motor was missing the starter when I picked it up, I ordered a new starter and got it installed, worked fine at first but it would crank one minute, then just click the next time I'd try. Sometimes spinning the crank would allow the starter to work, or tapping the starter with a wrench. So I'm assuming I need to shim it, I just can't find anything on shimming a d1105 starter.

If I remove the starter it will spin fine repeatedly. So I guess basically what I'm asking is do these starters normally need to be shimmed, or does this sound like a shimming issue? Thanks for taking the time to read.

 

[Daren Todd]

If it's working intermittently, check your positive and ground connections.

If the unit has an external starter solenoid. That could very well be the issue also.

My thoughts are a bad/ loose connection somewhere. Especially since you installed a new starter.

 

[ElectricLee13]

If it's working intermittently, check your positive and ground connections.

If the unit has an external starter solenoid. That could very well be the issue also.

My thoughts are a bad/ loose connection somewhere. Especially since you installed a new starter.

Thanks for the reply, but trust me I've tried, I've gone as far as running a fresh power and ground straight off the battery, then using my power probe as the 12v signal bypassing ignition. Sometimes it will work if i hit the starter a few times with a wrench but I usually have to fully remove it then reinstall for it to crank again. But if I leave it off the unit and use the same power cables, it cranks fine.

 

[GeoHorn]

Brand-New parts can fail also. Make a Warranty claim on your defective starter.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks for the reply, but trust me I've tried, I've gone as far as running a fresh power and ground straight off the battery, then using my power probe as the 12v signal bypassing ignition. Sometimes it will work if i hit the starter a few times with a wrench but I usually have to fully remove it then reinstall for it to crank again. But if I leave it off the unit and use the same power cables, it cranks fine.

You have a bad starter, there is no shimming these starters.

 

[ElectricLee13]

Brand-New parts can fail also. Make a Warranty claim on your defective starter.

You have a bad starter, there is no shimming these starters.

Thank you both for getting back, I'll definitely reach out to the seller to see about warranty. I'm assuming the starter must not have been rebuilt right, or has a flat spot somewhere, that'd explain why it works one minute, but not the next.

 

[Henro]

I think you should also take a voltage measurement.

When the starter is removed and tested, is this with it still in place electrically, and just hanging in the air, with a wire connected between it and the frame/negative battery terminal?

If so you are checking the circuit that activates the starter solenoid, and it appears to be working as expected.

BUT with no load, the starter draws much lower current to turn, as compared to when it is actually loaded by trying to turn the engine flywheel. So the testing the starter unloaded may prove nothing really. Other than the starter motor turns over when unloaded.

What you need to do is measure voltage on the starter lug itself. not the wire connecting to it, with respect to the starter case.

If this voltage is very close to the same as the battery voltage, when the started is loaded normally, you likely have a starter issue. IF the voltage suddenly drops when you are trying to start the engine, with the starter installed on the engine block, you have a wiring/connection issue in the power circuit.

Without making a simple voltage check like this you are really shooting in the dark.

My two cents anyway...feel free to keep them or pass them on to someone later...

 

[Russell King]

You should look at the teeth on the tractor’s ring gear (on the flywheel). They may be damaged and causing some issue with the starter?

Remove starter look in the hole where the starter was and rotate engine through 360 degrees to see if any teeth are damaged even though the engine may stop in the same spot most of the time

 

[Henro]

You should look at the teeth on the tractor’s ring gear (on the flywheel). They may be damaged and causing some issue with the starter?

Remove starter look in the hole where the starter was and rotate engine through 360 degrees to see if any teeth are damaged even though the engine may stop in the same spot most of the time

This brings up a good point to consider. When you have the issue, does the starter turn the engine and then stop, or does it not even try to turn?

Still, I think I would make the voltage check first as it is easy, if you have a volt meter...

I have no idea how much the voltage measured at the starter lug would drop if the starter was mechanically stalled. So many questions...one step at a time....

 

[ElectricLee13]

You have a bad starter, there is no shimming these starters.

You should look at the teeth on the tractor’s ring gear (on the flywheel). They may be damaged and causing some issue with the starter?

Remove starter look in the hole where the starter was and rotate engine through 360 degrees to see if any teeth are damaged even though the engine may stop in the same spot most of the time

This brings up a good point to consider. When you have the issue, does the starter turn the engine and then stop, or does it not even try to turn?

Still, I think I would make the voltage check first as it is easy, if you have a volt meter...

I have no idea how much the voltage measured at the starter lug would drop if the starter was mechanically stalled. So many questions...one step at a time....

Thank you all for getting back, finally had a chance to dive in today and here's what I found. So electrically, everything is solid. Had some brand new 2/0 welding cable I used for testing/bypassing everything. Main lug voltage @ starter is only dropping like a half volt. Upon further testing, I realized if I loosen the mounting bolts and move the starter around, *left, right, up and down, no real rhyme or reason to it or certain position where it constantly works* occasionally I could get the starter to engage.

I checked with my camera and realized that I could snake a borescope in from the back side to actually try to watch the gears engaging. Upon reinstalling everything, it looks like the starter needs to be shimmed, even though it "isn't supposed to be." I posted a short on YouTube of what's going on but I want y'all's opinion still. I double checked and made sure I ordered the right starter like 5 times because we all can make mistakes

 

[ElectricLee13]

This brings up a good point to consider. When you have the issue, does the starter turn the engine and then stop, or does it not even try to turn?

Still, I think I would make the voltage check first as it is easy, if you have a volt meter...

I have no idea how much the voltage measured at the starter lug would drop if the starter was mechanically stalled. So many questions...one step at a time....

Oh and to answer your other question, if I keep the key turned, it'll crank the motor all day, but as soon as I let go and try to crank again, if it lands in the wrong spot, it will just click.

 

[Russell King]

I am no starter expert but it looks like the ring is nearly contacting the outer diameter of the flywheel gear. Do you have the old starter still or is it gone (returned for the core)?

If you still have it I suggest you compare the bendix configuration of old to new.

Or compare new starter to another version of the new starter at the auto parts store or starter repair shop to see if they are the same bendix.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It's more than likely the wrong starter for that motor/ flywheel.
There should be no issue with it engaging.
I will repeat there is no shimming required as it's bolted parallel to flywheel.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

There couldn't be any shims. Think about the assembly line process. There is NO way anyone would install, gauge/test, remove/shim, reinstall, test a starter on the assembly line. A trained pro could easily take 10s of minutes to 'proper shim starter' and that won't happen on any assembly line, as stuff gets installed in SECONDS.
I suspect wrong 'bendix' unit(whatever the spring and gear is called...), or maybe defective.