Top and Tilt debacle...A pictorial guide on how to shoot ones self in the foot (Part 2)

[Runs With Scissors]

The bore in that banjo is 18mm but since you need a longer custom banjo bolt increasing the diameter of the shoulder would take care of that.

When you say "need a longer custom banjo bolt" does that mean I would have to make them?



Also, will the 3069L-18-18 will accept a 12mm tube?

Paul

 

[TheOldHokie]

When you say "need a longer custom banjo bolt" does that mean I would have to make them?



Also, will the 3069L-18-18 will accept a 12mm tube?

Paul

Yes you would have to make the banjo bolt. Making custom screw thread fasteners is probably one of the easiest tasks you can undertake on a lathe. I knock them out on a regular basis. My apologies but I have lost track of a lot of the details in this epic drama. What is the port thread in your cylinder?

I am far more familiar with JIC fittings but I referenced 18mm DIN light (L) because I think it accepts 12mm tube. I can double check to be sure. The point being you can get a DIN banjo that matches the metric tube. That's probably how the AgriSupply cylinders are assembled.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

When you say "need a longer custom banjo bolt" does that mean I would have to make them?



Also, will the 3069L-18-18 will accept a 12mm tube?

Paul

I confirmed 3069-L-18-18 aka 3069-12L-18 accepts 12mm tube. The parts needed for a complete banjo assembly and some additional 12mm tube are linked below. If you want some help with the custom bolts PM me.

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

12mmX1.5mmW | 12mm Steel Tubing

12mmX1.5mmW | 12mm Steel Tubing

shop.hoseandfittings.com

 

[TXLonghorn91]

I feel your pain. I had to replace a bunch of hoses on an old loader a couple of months ago. Absolutely infuriating the number of different fittings between the valve and cylinders. I don’t want to think about how much I spent. As much as I am against such a thing, there oughta be a law…

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I confirmed 3069-L-18-18 aka 3069-12L-18 accepts 12mm tube. The parts needed for a complete banjo assembly and some additional 12mm tube are linked below. If you want some help with the custom bolts PM me.

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

Hose and Fittings.com

12mmX1.5mmW | 12mm Steel Tubing

12mmX1.5mmW | 12mm Steel Tubing

shop.hoseandfittings.com

Thanks Dan.

Be prepared for an incoming PM in a few days when I get back.

At this point I feel like this check valve is Apollo Creed and I'm Rocky Balboa when Mickey says "DOWN, DOWN, STAY DOWN!"

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan.

Be prepared for an incoming PM in a few days when I get back.

At this point I feel like this check valve is Apollo Creed and I'm Rocky Balboa when Mickey says "DOWN, DOWN, STAY DOWN!"

Apollo does not know it yet but he has a date with the canvas

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Apollo does not know it yet but he has a date with the canvas

Yes sir.....

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Ok well I told myself that in order to avoid "The Jinx" I would not post on this again until I had actually tested it, but my vanity/proudness/excitement is getting the better of me

So off we go,

I ordered 2 feet of 7/8" hex stock and cut it off on the band saw to about 4 1/2 " so that I had plenty of "gripping area".

I then chucked her up, and faced it.

Foot note: I am using my "new" QC tool post and have been doing a better job at learning how to grind my own bits. Not great, just better.

I also bought this new "camera holder" with a "remote control" that snaps pictures by pressing a button on the remote instead of using the phone touch pad......it seems to help so far.

I set the cross compound to ~ 29.5 degrees....Why you ask?

Well some people say 29 degrees and some say 30 for "single point threading", so I "split the baby" by going 29.5'ish ( I have no idea if this is good or bad)

It seems logical to me to start by drilling the "main hole" so I can use that for my 'live center'

Using my 'spotting drill' I get the hole started and then choose a drill bit that is smaller than the factory banjo bolt hole, becasue I think that would hole would be too big

Here is the "original banjo bolt and it has a pretty big opening. That would be too large for my application so I decide to go a few sizes smaller. There is a lot going on in my head so I can't recall what size I chose. (bookmark this in your head)

All my measurements are "theoretical" but I reason that the depth of the original bolt "main hole" should be about what I need.

Drilling it goes well.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok well I told myself that in order to avoid "The Jinx" I would not post on this again until I had actually tested it, but my vanity/proudness/excitement is getting the better of me

So off we go,

I ordered 2 feet of 7/8" hex stock and cut it off on the band saw to about 4 1/2 " so that I had plenty of "gripping area".

I then chucked her up, and faced it.

Foot note: I am using my "new" QC tool post and have been doing a better job at learning how to grind my own bits. Not great, just better.

I also bought this new "camera holder" with a "remote control" that snaps pictures by pressing a button on the remote instead of using the phone touch pad......it seems to help so far.

I set the cross compound to ~ 29.5 degrees....Why you ask?

Well some people say 29 degrees and some say 30 for "single point threading", so I "split the baby" by going 29.5'ish ( I have no idea if this is good or bad)

View attachment 112173



View attachment 112172

It seems logical to me to start by drilling the "main hole" so I can use that for my 'live center'

Using my 'spotting drill' I get the hole started and then choose a

View attachment 112175


Here is the "original banjo bolt and it has a pretty big opening. That would be too large for my application so I decide to go a few sizes smaller. There is a lot going on in my head so I can't recall what size I chose. (bookmark this in your head)

All my measurements are "theoretical" but I reason that the depth of the original bolt "main hole" should be about what I need.

Drilling it goes well.

View attachment 112176

View attachment 112177

View attachment 112178

Couple hopefully constructive comments.

If that bar will fit through the thru hole in the spindle you will waste less stock by chucking longer lengths and parting off AFTER you drill, turn, and single point the end. No need for the tailstock on something that short. Depending on the workpiece diameter and your live center you may find interference prevents getting the threading tool holder up against the end of the work.

More importantly have you determined what the thread type and pitch is on the ports in your cylinder?

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Now to start turning the "shoulder' and the major diameter of the threaded part.

I grind "my version" of a roughing bit and it works surprisingly well.

One problem is that I don't have a "right hand bit holding tool" big enough to accept the bits I used, so I have to mount the bits directly on the tool post so clearance becomes a problem.

My dilemma becomes this.

I can either let the tool hang out more and keep the angle, or keep it short and 90 degrees to the work.

I am concerned with "chatter" so I decide to try the "short and 90 degree" route.

I don't have a real "stopper" for the lathe so I decide just "improvise" with a little C-clamp.

The first couple of passes go well.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Couple hopefully constructive comments.

If that bar will fit through the thru hole in the spindle you will waste less stock by chucking longer lengths and parting off AFTER you drill, turn, and single point the end. No need for the tailstock on something that short. Depending on the workpiece diameter and your live center you may find interference prevents getting the threading tool holder up against the end of the work.

More importantly have you determined what the thread type and pitch is on the ports in your cylinder?

Dan

Dan,

I did try to pass the bar though, but it would not fit. So I had to cut it.

I also determined that it is a 9/16 - 18 thread on the cylinder. (I went to the hardware store and bought a nut and bolt to confirm the port size and will use the nut to "test" my threading prowess)

Paul

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan,

I did try to pass the bar though, but it would not fit. So I had to cut it.

I also determined that it is a 9/16 - 18 thread on the cylinder. (I went to the hardware store and bought a nut and bolt to confirm the port size and will use the nut to "test" my threading prowess)

Paul

Then start with a longer piece that goes as deep in the chuck as pissible and still leaves enough length protruding to turn and thread the entire length of the banjo bolt. You can do all of the operations without rechucking which guarantees concentricity and avoids the problem of tailstock interference.

That wastes a lot of stock but it's an unfortunate fact of life on a lathe with a small spindle bore. One way to limit waste if making multiple parts is to start with a piece long enough for two bolts. Drill, turn, and thread one end then reverse the work piece in the chuck, do the other end, and part off giving you two bolts.

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I "creep up" on the final dimensions for the shoulder, but I can't see the damn numbers on the feed dial for sh!t.

I decide to mark it with a marker pen, but I was recently diagnosed with CRS (Can't Remember Sh!t), and have no idea where I put it.

"Desperate times, call for desperate measures", so at the risk of getting my "Man Card" revoked, I used some of my daughters nail polish....I was looking for white, but "Sinful Colors Pink" was the best I could do.

A little dab will do ya.

this made a big difference, so I keep going. I am pleased with the finish I am getting and starting to get "hopeful" .

As I approach the "final shoulder diameter" I use the actual banjo bolt itself to "test fit it"

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I finally get there (Sorry for the sideway pic, I'm still getting used to that "camera thingy.")

I am also having a difficult time keeping the small parts in focus. Gotta figure that out.

You can see that now I have to "square up" the shoulder.

I switch out to a "facing bit" and gently work it back and forth.

A few minutes later I test fit the crush washer, and it looks good.

The finish looks a little "sucky" in the pic, but it when I cleaned it up, it was "passable" .

 

[TheOldHokie]

I finally get there (Sorry for the sideway pic, I'm still getting used to that "camera thingy.")

I am also having a difficult time keeping the small parts in focus. Gotta figure that out.

You can see that now I have to "square up" the shoulder.

View attachment 112190

I switch out to a "facing bit" and gently work it back and forth.

View attachment 112191

A few minutes later I test fit the crush washer, and it looks good.

The finish looks a little "sucky" in the pic, but it when I cleaned it up, it was "passable" .

View attachment 112192

Surface finish is fine. Invest in a Cratex stick if you want polished.

This is looking up!

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I when I figured out the "shoulder depth" I totally forgot about the 2 Crush washers, so I gotta go back and cut the shoulder a little deeper...

Then it happens..... "MOTHERFU22ER, C@CKS##KER, YOU DIRTY ROTTEN PIECE OF SH!T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't explain what happened, but I totally fu@@ed it up......

After some brief "soul searching" I decide that no one will ever see it (besides the whole world now), and it should not affect the performance so I "square it up" again for the crush washers sealing surface and 'push on"....

When the Banjo bolt is on, it looks good, so I say "fu@k it, sh!t happens" and just move on.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

This is looking up!

Dan

That reminds me of the "optimist" falling off a building.....

On his way down he could be heard yelling as he passed each window......... "SO FAR, SO GOOD!!!!!"

 

[TheOldHokie]

I when I figured out the "shoulder depth" I totally forgot about the 2 Crush washers, so I gotta go back and cut the shoulder a little deeper...

Then it happens..... "MOTHERFU22ER, C@CKS##KER, YOU DIRTY ROTTEN PIECE OF SH!T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't explain what happened, but I totally fu@@ed it up......

View attachment 112194

After some brief "soul searching" I decide that no one will ever see it (besides the whole world now), and it should not affect the performance so I "square it up" again for the crush washers sealing surface and 'push on"....

View attachment 112195

When the Banjo bolt is on, it looks good, so I say "fu@k it, sh!t happens" and just move on.

View attachment 112196

Save the cursing for when you have a couple days of machining invested and the piece is ruined....

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Now I gotta "hog out" an "under cut" so I have time to stop the lathe when turning the threads.

I decide to use this bit and kinda "work it back and forth" to get my "under cut" area. It goes slow, but it finally gets done.

I get a little "crazy" and it does not look great, but again I reason that no one will see it, so, again, fu@@ it, Move on.

After a little "sanding" and polishing with "Red ScotchBrite" she's not looking too bad.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Now I gotta figure out how to Change the gears on my lathe to thread an 18 pitch thread.

I have never done this before, so it takes me about an hour'ish to figure it out.

Long story short, the only mistake I made was to not "space the gears" properly so she was making a funny humming noise.

I saw a Tubalcain video where he said to use a piece of paper as a spacer tool, so I tried it.

It worked perfectly. No more "abnormal humming" (It's about the most useful thing you can use a IRS form for, besides wiping your a$$ ...LOL)

Here we go........

I have a ton of these, what I would call, "pre-ground threading bits" from when I bought the lathe, so against Dans advise (and I should know better by now) I decide to use them, instead of buying a special threading tool.

I take great care to use my "fish tale" and line it up as perfectly as I can.

The pressure is mounting and I am at Def Con 3 right now......

I have a ton of work into this (at least it is for me....I know a real machinist would have this done in minutes, but I am rolling up on the 5 hour mark)

So I "chicken out" and decide to put a "scrape piece" in the chuck to make my test pass.

I fire her up and flip the "half nut" when the dial hits "2"

That's as close to perfect as I can do, so I think it's a "Go", so I chuck the real piece up and I do notice a "little run out". (like Dan pointed out earlier, You should try to avoid doing that.)

Its not too bad though, so F it.

I mark it with a black marker and take a "scratch cut, and once again.....Perfection.....

I take a few pass's and test it with my "test nut",..............everything is looking good and I'm "stoked".

Fu@K yes.....I finally did it.