Standard double acting rear remotes, double acting remotes with float and snow blowers.

[mcmxi]

When I bought the MX6000 HST in February I had the dealer install three rear remotes with all three being the standard double acting variety. I have top-n-tilt on that tractor so for non-winter use I use one remote for the top cylinder (top) and one for the lift arm cylinder (tilt). For winter use I'm running a Land Pride SB1574 3-point snow blower and it needs two circuits, one for chute rotation and one for chute angle. I decided to remove the top link cylinder and replace it with the factory adjustable top link to free up a circuit and I figured I don't need to change the fore and aft angle of the blower once it's on the deck. So the current set up is one valve runs the lift arm cylinder, one runs the chute rotation and one runs the chute angle.

When I ordered the new MX6000 HSTC I wanted to have a double acting float valve out back for a batwing type mower or similar. So two of the valves are standard double acting, and one is a double acting with float. What I plan on doing once I move the SB1574 over to the new tractor is to run the lift arm cylinder on the float valve with the valve being in the float position. I'm thinking this could work well in that it will allow the blower to follow the asphalt surface regardless of how the rear tires are positioned. Currently I need to adjust the lift arm cylinder to deal with some off camber transitions that don't clean off well with the blower set up for a level surface.

Anyway, just a thought for anyone thinking about rear remotes. I might find that this doesn't work as well as I think it will but I can always run the float valve in "standard" mode.

 

[NCL4701]

I don’t have a snow blower due to lack of snow, but I do swap the float valve from the top link to the side link when pulling gravel migrated to the ditch back into the road so the backblade will follow the varying contour of the ditch bank. Works pretty well. Don’t know why a snow blower wouldn’t do the same.

 

[mcmxi]

I don’t have a snow blower due to lack of snow, but I do swap the float valve from the top link to the side link when pulling gravel migrated to the ditch back into the road so the backblade will follow the varying contour of the ditch bank. Works pretty well. Don’t know why a snow blower wouldn’t do the same.

That's good to hear. Hopefully it'll work for me too!

 

[Dave_eng]

Making angle changes to your blower which results in pto joints at either end of the pto shaft being different is not the wisest thing to do. The blower was designed and built so that it sits flat on the ground and not with a tilt to change the cutting edge angle

These issues do not arise when the rear implement does not have a pto shaft like a rear back blade.

Dave

 

[mcmxi]

Making angle changes to your blower which results in pto joints at either end of the pto shaft being different is not the wisest thing to do. The blower was designed and built so that it sits flat on the ground and not with a tilt to change the cutting edge angle

These issues do not arise when the rear implement does not have a pto shaft like a rear back blade.

Dave

I don't agree with you because the blower is rotating about the input shaft to the gearbox and we're talking small angles of +/- 5 degrees or so. I ran it today with the side link in float and it worked very well.

 

[Dave_eng]

I don't agree with you because the blower is rotating about the input shaft to the gearbox and we're talking small angles of +/- 5 degrees or so. I ran it today with the side link in float and it worked very well.

As you read my reply, remember I am not trying to argue with you. Perhaps there are aspects of your setup I am not appreciating.
When U joint angles are different at either end of the shaft, there is a continuous acceleration and deceleration taking place along the length of the pto shaft This could be called vibration.

Just because you cannot feel it does not mean it is not taking place.

This linked youtube training video may help convey the points I am trying to make.

video

Ultimately, it is your equipment and you can do whatever you want.

Dave

 

[mcmxi]

As you read my reply, remember I am not trying to argue with you. Perhaps there are aspects of your setup I am not appreciating.
When U joint angles are different at either end of the shaft, there is a continuous acceleration and deceleration taking place along the length of the pto shaft This could be called vibration.

Just because you cannot feel it does not mean it is not taking place.

Ultimately, it is your equipment and you can do whatever you want.

Dave

Dave, I appreciate your thoughts and agree with you that driveshaft angles are important and definitely something to think about. That said, the angle changes are small as the snow blower skids follow the surface of the driveway, in part because they're close to the rear wheels of the tractor.

Thinking more about what you said I agree that 3-point/pto mounted implements are typically allowed/designed to only move in the vertical plane which does change driveshaft angles. The rotary cutter I run will change vertical angle constantly as the tractor and cutter follow the terrain. With the snow blower running in side float mode there can be small changes in both horizontal and vertical angles. The driveshaft has u-joints on both ends as well as a slip joint for the two halves of the driveshaft so I think it can handle those changes fairly easily.

As you say, it's my equipment and if I end up breaking a u-joint it'll be my own fault.

Merry Christmas!

 

[Jchonline]

Watching this one closely...I may need to adjust one of my rear valves to float. I have exactly he same setup. SB1574 with top n tilt.

 

[Old_Paint]

Changing the angles of BOTH u-joints equally and in the same direction so that the rotational planes remain parallel to each other isn't a problem (unless you get outside the operating angle limits of the u-joint). Changing the angle of ONE of them with respect to the other and running for extended periods is a big problem in a relatively small amount of time. The least costly failure will destroy the u-joint that's taking most of the 'whipping' caused by the misalignment. The costliest may be your life when that shaft comes apart.

Like Dave, I'm not arguing, just trying to help explain the mechanical forces on those u-joints. Fortunately, they turn pretty slow and have a lot of slop in the splines of the stub shafts and slip joint, as well as don't really have that much torque on them. They're typically grossly overrated, for the known and expected issues of alignment on farm implements that have to move around. If you're lucky, it'll shake like a wet dog and warn you first if you get too far out of alignment. If you're not lucky it won't vibrate or if you ignore the warnings, well, you or the equipment won't be real lucky real soon. Poor PTO shaft alignment can quickly blow out PTO spindle bearings or gear-box bearings in the implement. I promise, you don't want to see a driveshaft come apart at one end. As you and Dave both say, though, it's your machine.

 

[mcmxi]

As you read my reply, remember I am not trying to argue with you. Perhaps there are aspects of your setup I am not appreciating.
When U joint angles are different at either end of the shaft, there is a continuous acceleration and deceleration taking place along the length of the pto shaft This could be called vibration.

Just because you cannot feel it does not mean it is not taking place.

This linked youtube training video may help convey the points I am trying to make.

video

Ultimately, it is your equipment and you can do whatever you want.

Dave

Dave,
Thanks for the video link and I really enjoyed the video. The angles that he shows for the worst-case scenario are extreme and way more than I'm talking about with the snow blower being allowed to float on one of the side links. The 3-point floats as well, and for the most part the blower is in the same plane as the rear wheels of the tractor with the occasional angle change of few degrees.

If I break a u-joint I'll be sure to add to this thread.

 

[Dave_eng]

Dave,
Thanks for the video link and I really enjoyed the video. The angles that he shows for the worst-case scenario are extreme and way more than I'm talking about with the snow blower being allowed to float on one of the side links. The 3-point floats as well, and for the most part the blower is in the same plane as the rear wheels of the tractor with the occasional angle change of few degrees.

If I break a u-joint I'll be sure to add to this thread.

Thanks for taking my comments in the positive light intended.
If you look at a chart showing U joint life expectancy vs operating angle you see that the life drops off dramatically with an increase in operating angle.

This happens because even with both U joints operating at the same angle there is still some lack of uniformity in the rotation which creates vibration forces for the U joint to deal with.

Modern U joints in front wheel drive vehicles for example have a design which maintains a uniform rotation and for this reason are called constant velocity joints.

End of class for today...........

Dave

 

[mcmxi]

Thanks for taking my comments in the positive light intended.
If you look at a chart showing U joint life expectancy vs operating angle you see that the life drops off dramatically with an increase in operating angle.
View attachment 72281
This happens because even with both U joints operating at the same angle there is still some lack of uniformity in the rotation which creates vibration forces for the U joint to deal with.

Modern U joints in front wheel drive vehicles for example have a design which maintains a uniform rotation and for this reason are called constant velocity joints.

End of class for today...........

Dave

Great information ... thanks! When I lift the blower at the end of a run I try to only raise it up an inch or so because the driveshaft is still rotating. I could disengage the PTO before raising the blower but it's a bit of pain to keep lowering the RPM, disengage the PTO, raise the blower, lower the blower, engage the PTO and raise the RPM when clearing the parking areas.

 

[Henro]

As you read my reply, remember I am not trying to argue with you. Perhaps there are aspects of your setup I am not appreciating.
When U joint angles are different at either end of the shaft, there is a continuous acceleration and deceleration taking place along the length of the pto shaft This could be called vibration.

Just because you cannot feel it does not mean it is not taking place.

This linked youtube training video may help convey the points I am trying to make.

video

Ultimately, it is your equipment and you can do whatever you want.

Dave

Excellent instructional video Dave! Thanks for posting.

 

[Dave_eng]

Great information ... thanks! When I lift the blower at the end of a run I try to only raise it up an inch or so because the driveshaft is still rotating. I could disengage the PTO before raising the blower but it's a bit of pain to keep lowering the RPM, disengage the PTO, raise the blower, lower the blower, engage the PTO and raise the RPM when clearing the parking areas.

There is no benefit from starting and stopping the pto rotation. For another thing, it is unnecessary wear on the pto clutch mechanism,

Dave

 

[Thunder chicken]

Sorry if I’m being silly here but I’m not trying to stir the pot or argue about the driveline theory at all!
But I use the top link cylinder on my blower and find it useful. On hills, as small as some are, it’s helpful to adjust the blower. Or when the snow has packed down and froze, you can really scrape it down with the blowers cutting edge, where you want to of course. It only takes an inch or 2 of movement in the top link to make a huge change in that cutting edge bite angle! Maybe I’m being hard on stuff unknowingly.

 

[Dave_eng]

Sorry if I’m being silly here but I’m not trying to stir the pot or argue about the driveline theory at all!
But I use the top link cylinder on my blower and find it useful. On hills, as small as some are, it’s helpful to adjust the blower. Or when the snow has packed down and froze, you can really scrape it down with the blowers cutting edge, where you want to of course. It only takes an inch or 2 of movement in the top link to make a huge change in that cutting edge bite angle! Maybe I’m being hard on stuff unknowingly.

One option you have is to shut down the pto when trying to use the blower as a scraper.

Dave

 

[mcmxi]

There is no benefit from starting and stopping the pto rotation. For another thing, it is unnecessary wear on the pto clutch mechanism,

Dave

I left the PTO engaged today as much as possible and didn't even bother to raise the blower.