Remote Oil Filter

[Bugs 01]

Got an Onan gen with a Kubota 2 cyl Z482 engine that is extremely difficult to remove the oil filer Wix 51064, therefore, I would like to install a Dereal remote oil filter similar to the remote oil filter on a 1 cyl Kubota EA-300 engine.


I would like to increase the oil capacity by installing a Wix 51794 oil filter but was told that this would cause the engine to blow up. I didn’t get much info from the NAPA store except that I was stupid for even thinking about such a crazy change.


It seems they told me the large Wix 51794 is designed for big block chevy engines and not a small diesel as it does not have a by pass valve. However, they never offered any assistance in helping locate a large filter with the by pass valve.


If a large filter is not available with a by pass, just wondering if the small filter could be used on the remote filter base?


Has anyone attempted this or have any ideas ?





Thanks

 

[GeoHorn]

A bypass as you certainly know is designed to prevent a clogged filter from starving the engine completely for oil…the downside being that all the dirt it has collected within it can also be dumped into the engine. The advantage of that extra-large filter is the capacity to hold more dirt, to allow for higher volumes of oil flow (important for very large engines…not your proposed issue), and to possibly allow low-flow systems to dissipate some degree of heat as it passes thru the filter (also not your proposed issue.)
You might contact your preferred filter mfr’r and ask them for their filter specification sheet so you can determine which large filter has the thread-size and by-pass valve you want.
But if it were myself, I’d keep the same filter as designed for the engine and simply use it with the remote adaptor. After-all…. your primary intent is to simply make the filter-change more convenient.

 

[BruceP]

A bypass as you certainly know is designed to prevent a clogged filter from starving the engine completely

It is rare that someone will leave a filter on sooooo long that it gets clogged.

The bypass is more often used when starting a cold engine.... the thick oil cannot pass through the filter material so it will bypass for a few minutes to ensure the engine gets some oil. When the oil warms up and becomes thin enough to pass thru the filter, the bypass valve closes.

 

[BruceP]

Has anyone attempted this or have any ideas ?

I would do the following:

1. Determine the bypass pressure of the ORIGINAL filter.
2. Using that information, it will guide you to what can be used for your remote-filter installation.

Most filter-manufacturers can guide you to locate the proper filter if you give them the bypass PSI you are looking for.

NOTE: Since you will be adding remote filter, this means you will have to plumb in the remote filter holder... consider adding a small oil-cooler to this plumbing. That will add even more oil-capacity and prolong your oil/engine life.

 

[Bugs 01]

Thanks for the info and please allow me to bring you up to date after your info.

The engine in this Onan gen is a Z482 Kubota 2 cylinder diesel. I called Kubota to ask what the oil filter requirement and was shocked at the answer. After providing a serial number, I was told that the info on this engine was protected and could only be provided by Onan. It seems if I need any Kubota part, it is not available from Kubota but can only be purchased from Onan but is still in a Kubota box.

In the past, an Onan filter number was provided by Onan and crossed over to find that a Wix 51064 filter would fit. In order to verify that number, another call was placed to Onan service to be advised that the correct filter number was 185-7444 which crosses over to a Wix 51365. It is unknown why the filters numbers had changed since this engine has ran several hours using the previous 51064 filter without issues. A comparison was made between the 51064 and the 51365 to determine that they appear to be similar products with the same thread size, flow, drain back feature and almost the same size.

Several exchanges with Wix customer service failed to provide any real assistance. The surprising thing that stood out in my mind was they were unable to determine the volume of the 51064. In particular, their assistance was lacking at the least. They were never really able to answer a single question but just kept supplying generic allegations. They were not able to determine if a larger volume filter was available.

Baldwin on the other hand, was quick and to the point. Having a filter base with a 13/16-16 thread, I asked Baldwin if they had a larger filter similar to the Wix 51064. They responded rapidly identifying a Baldwin B1441 with similar features. Come to find out, this is the filter that is used on the Chevy Kodiak 6.6 diesel engine.

Once Baldwin supplied this filter number, amazing it crossed over to a Wix 57202 but for some reason Wix was either unable to unwilling to locate their own brand filter that was compatable.

Yes, I agree, this seems to add oil volume including the additional 22 ounces of oil between the capacity of the small filter and the larger filter. In addition, the hoses will hold additional oil. I have been looking at oil coolers but have yet to find a good solution. The only mounting location would be under a camper and the gen would only be used when parked, thus there would be no air flow across the cooler. I did see one cooler that looked like an aluminum pipe with fins but don’t know about it. I do know that this little engine runs rather on the hot side so anything to bring down the temp would be a success.

I appreciate all the info and would love to hear any ideas you may have. Thanks again

 

[BruceP]

A couple small electric fans blowing thru the cooler may help. I am thinking computer-grade fans which are available in MANY different diameter, airflow, voltage and lifespan.

 

[mattwithcats]

Wix 51356 is about the longest 20 X 1.5 filter that you can find.

Baldwin 1431 or Luber-Finer LF486 are half an inch longer, but unicorn tears...
(unobtainable)

 

[Bark]

BruceP has a good idea since those computer fans are cheap and quiet.
However (and its been awhile) we used the electric fan from an old Subaru radiator to cool off a generator in a similar situation. Reason why we used the auto fan was they can be found for free in a junk yard and for some reason we wanted to use the 12 volt outlet on the generator to power it. I think later he even got a thermo switch installed so it only kicked on when it got hot.

 

[BruceP]

...we used the electric fan from an old Subaru radiator to cool off a generator...

Interesting, I have used old Subie fan to cool hot-running aircooled engines running underhood of riding mower.

We also split some flexable aluminum clothes-dryer ducting lengthwise to form exhaust heatshields. The more heat one can keep WITHIN an exhaust system.... the better the flow. (less expansion of moving gasses)... not to mention lower underhood temperatures.

 

[Bugs 01]

Like the idea about a themo switch. How did you wire it up? Where did the sending unit connect? At what temp did it engage and disengage?
Interesting

 

[BruceP]

Like the idea about a themo switch.

Are you aware that some oil-coolers have a BUILT IN thermal-bypass? The oil only flows thru the fins above a specific temperature... otherwise, the oil 'bypasses' the fins. (flow is maintained)

If equipment is operated in cold climates, it is VITAL to not overcool the oil. Thick oil does not flow/lubricate properly.

 

[GeoHorn]

Are you aware that some oil-coolers have a BUILT IN thermal-bypass? The oil only flows thru the fins above a specific temperature... otherwise, the oil 'bypasses' the fins. (flow is maintained)

If equipment is operated in cold climates, it is VITAL to not overcool the oil. Thick oil does not flow/lubricate properly.

Cold oil will congeal in a cooler and block lubrication…..is why the bypass.

 

[Henro]

The bypass is more often used when starting a cold engine.... the thick oil cannot pass through the filter material so it will bypass for a few minutes to ensure the engine gets some oil. When the oil warms up and becomes thin enough to pass thru the filter, the bypass valve closes.

This seems entirely reasonable, IF oil gets thick enough when cold to not flow through the filter element at satisfactory rates.

And in Alaska or northern Canada, during the coldest part of winter may certainly be the case.

So my question is, has this been proven by someone who actually did documented tests?

Kind of an "urban legend VS actual fact" question. I do not really doubt that oil viscosity increases as temps drop. Just wonder in most cases, aside from the extremes, if this is primary reason for the filter bypass feature.

 

[BruceP]

has this been proven by someone who actually did documented tests?

I am not sure exactly where you are going with this question.

The engineers who specify that their engine needs an oil-filter with bypass valve certainly did these tests and even specify what PSI to use for the bypass. I am sure they documented their findings.

For example Subaru engines have 'special' bypass PSI which is not easily found in aftermarket filters. Some so-called equivalant filters have different bypass PSI when compared to Subaru filter.

---------------------
Along a similar discussion... I used to have a pull-start snowblower. With dinosaur oil in it, at 0F.... it would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to pull the ripcord. All my strength would barely crank the engine VERRYY slowly.

When I changed the oil to synthetic, at the same 0F, the engine turned over like it was a summer day. The Difference in ability to pull the ripcord was VERY much easier with synthetic oil.

This is one of the main reasons why all modern vehicles call for synthetic oil. The ability to flow at VERY cold temperatures. Of course, the ability to withstand heat is the other main reason.

This is known as "thermal stability". Motor oil which is engineered in a laboratory (not refined from crude oil) is FARRRRR better at maintaining its viscosity across wide temperatures. It is NOT 'more slippery' like some naive folks like to say.


BTW: I am in Vermont and it gets well below 0F in the winter. (no need to go to Alaska or Northern Canada)

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Don't over-think this. Just find a remote base for your existing filter, OR, find remote base and choose a filter that fits your base size, has a bypass, and is specified for a larger engine (pick one!) than yours. You'll be fine.

WIX Filters - Products Catalog Home

wixfilters.com

 

[Henro]

I am not sure exactly where you are going with this question.

Not really going anywhere with my question. Just observing that it is obvious that a bypass is there to protect the engine if the filter does not pass enough oil for whatever reason.

just wondering if it has been proven that in cold temps that an oil filter will not pass enough oil due to viscosity increase, or if this is just something that we come to believe because people say it, aka urban legend.

Perhaps there is data somewhere showing oil filter bypass operation VS ambient temperatures for various oils...no clue...

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Not really going anywhere with my question. Just observing that it is obvious that a bypass is there to protect the engine if the filter does not pass enough oil for whatever reason.

Exactly. Whether it's because it's clogged with contamination or because it's 40 below and the oil won't flow through, the bypass takes care of it.

If you need proof that oil has trouble flowing through a filter when it's dozens of degrees below zero, I don't know what to tell you except to learn some more about the topic.

 

[Henro]

Exactly. Whether it's because it's clogged with contamination or because it's 40 below and the oil won't flow through, the bypass takes care of it.

If you need proof that oil has trouble flowing through a filter when it's dozens of degrees below zero, I don't know what to tell you except to learn some more about the topic.

OK, got it. Apparently there is no definitive data or test results to be cited. So claims are made without data to back them up. Happens all the time.

I can can live with that. But it gives less credibility to the claim that an oil filter does not pass very cold oil.

But it as you indicate, what difference does such knowledge make, if a bypass is used? It either functions or doesn’t need to when the oil is cold. Best to have a bypass in my opinion...rather than not.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

I also have no data to cite that proves the sun rises in the east every morning, but I'm still going with it.

 

[BruceP]

It either functions or doesn’t need to when the oil is cold. Best to have a bypass in my opinion...rather than not.

Not to beat this subject to death.... be aware that SOME engine-designs have the bypass BUILT IN to some area of the engine-block. These engines DO NOT specify a filter with bypass.

For example, I know some Cummins engines have remote (to the filter) bypass valves. Infact, Cummins uses some 'tricks' to help the oil-pressure build up quickly when engine is started.... mainly because the injectors NEED oil-pressure to function. (Yes... some diesel engines use the engine-oil kinda like hydraulic fluid to operate the injectors.)

Most GM engines also have bypass-valve outside the filter.

Do not confuse the function of filter-bypass valve with the oil-pressure relief valve.... that is a different subject.