Picked up my 2014 L3200 and guy I got it from was giving me pointers. Oil and transmission change is due at 50 hours, and filters. No problem. He also said it wasn't good to use off road diesel. Correct? windsolar
Off road diesel ok for the L3200?
- Thread starter windsolar
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My dealer told me that offroad diesel is the same thing just dyed and taxed more.
I don't use a lot of fuel and offroad isn't easy to find so I just use the automotive diesel and add some Stanadyne.
I don't use a lot of fuel and offroad isn't easy to find so I just use the automotive diesel and add some Stanadyne.
Off road is just red dyed diesel. Red dye signifies no tax.
Most people don't know it but heating oil (high sulfur) is almost done away with. I think NY went two years ago, NJ went last year and PA is suppose to go next year.
So now heating oil in NY and Nj are both low sulfur, out of our terminal in trenton it is diesel - there is no more heating oil in our area.
Most people don't know it but heating oil (high sulfur) is almost done away with. I think NY went two years ago, NJ went last year and PA is suppose to go next year.
So now heating oil in NY and Nj are both low sulfur, out of our terminal in trenton it is diesel - there is no more heating oil in our area.
85Hokie
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Ditto what he said ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Always get off-road - if there is a station near by, otherwise you are paying "road" tax. And you know how much we love to pay for taxes.
Here in Virginia - it is about 40 cents per gallon difference.
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If you use "off-road" diesel fuel in a newer model tractor, you need to be sure it is ULSD (ultra-low-sulfur-diesel, <15ppm sulfur). The ULSD is all that is available for "over-the-road" diesel so that's not a concern as all over-the-road diesel sold since 2010 is ULSD, but some states did not require going to ULSD for "off-road diesel" until much later dates. I think someone said they where using "heating oil" in their tractor - which I would not be sure what the sulfur content is.
On the flip side, if you have an older tractor (pre-2007) and your buying ULSD you would want to use an additive to add back the "lubricity" that the sulfur provided to the injectors and injection pump.
http://www.ct.gov/deep/lib/deep/air/ultra_low_sulfur_diesel/ulsdfs.pdf
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Thanks, Mike. That is my understanding that some off road is not ULSD. I know from driving a TDI that some diesel is "winter" and some "summer" as well. Had a fuel line freeze up when I filled at a station that had low turn over of fuel and after checking I now fill at major stations. windsolar
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Off road will follow what on road will be, so if the on road is winter blend so will be the off road.
Same goes for sulfur content.
Most delivery outfits do not haul 2 different types of fuel, they just add the dye when the drop off and fill the stations off road tank.
Same goes for sulfur content.
Most delivery outfits do not haul 2 different types of fuel, they just add the dye when the drop off and fill the stations off road tank.
County bumpkin is right for the heating oil. In NJ And NY heating oil is now all low sulfer, its the same exact thing as diesel. But on other states like PA and I'm sure others heating oil is still high sulfur and should not be used.
I would never trust a gas station saying the have a winter blend (additive mixed in). We have the option to pre adding it to our delivery trucks that go to customers houses and gas station. But all it takes is a driver not loading a pre additive load and you got a summer blend (no additive).
Even if you are getting a delivery from an oil company of off road diesel, and your in a cold area, add the additive yourself the driver can make a mistake. When I go to the terminal my selections at the rack are premium or regular (additive or no additve) under the disel racks. But the selections are on top of eachother. I could easily hit the wrong key.
This way you make sure its there. Nothing like freezing up your fuel (gelling) in the middle of a -5 degree cold snap.
For those of you that use a good amount of off road diesel, start talking to your local oil companies. Its easy for us/them to bring you out a load. Ether it be into 55 gallon drums, a 275 gallon oil tank, or a 300 or 500 skid tank.
You add a pump and you have your own fuel. No more going back and forth to the gas station.
My backup generators are also diesel. So off road diesel has many good uses.
I would never trust a gas station saying the have a winter blend (additive mixed in). We have the option to pre adding it to our delivery trucks that go to customers houses and gas station. But all it takes is a driver not loading a pre additive load and you got a summer blend (no additive).
Even if you are getting a delivery from an oil company of off road diesel, and your in a cold area, add the additive yourself the driver can make a mistake. When I go to the terminal my selections at the rack are premium or regular (additive or no additve) under the disel racks. But the selections are on top of eachother. I could easily hit the wrong key.
This way you make sure its there. Nothing like freezing up your fuel (gelling) in the middle of a -5 degree cold snap.
For those of you that use a good amount of off road diesel, start talking to your local oil companies. Its easy for us/them to bring you out a load. Ether it be into 55 gallon drums, a 275 gallon oil tank, or a 300 or 500 skid tank.
You add a pump and you have your own fuel. No more going back and forth to the gas station.
My backup generators are also diesel. So off road diesel has many good uses.
Use highway diesel. Fuel costs are pretty low right now, so there isn't a huge difference in cost. At least not here. Good thing about highway diesel is that it runs through the gas station pumps a LOT faster than off-road does, and is MUCH less likely to get contaminated with water, rust, junk, etc. Out of all the fuel system problems I've personally dealt with this year so far, 99% of the diesels' problems were all red diesel. Most of the time water contamination.
ULSD will work fine in all diesel engines. Some have reported some issues with pumps and nozzles, but it's been our experience that those who have reported those issues had problems prior to the switch to ULSD. Similar to Ethanol being blamed for every fuel system problem known to man in gasoline-burning small engines, when in fact Ethanol isn't the root cause. It certainly doesn't help matters any, but it is not the 100% guaranteed root cause. Just like the red diesel stuff, a large portion of carburetors I've cleaned this year on boat motors, ATV's, motorcycles, mowers, etc, have had "non-ethanol" fuel used in them religiously. No, I don't like Ethanol blended gasoline, nor do I like ULSD, but manufacturers have been planning for these changes since roughly 1998. Even the older stuff rarely sees problems directly related to ULSD. Again, some say that ULSD has ruined their pumps and nozzles, but IMO, there were prior problems unrelated to ULSD. ULSD just magnified those problems and gave people an avenue to place blame.
ULSD will work fine in all diesel engines. Some have reported some issues with pumps and nozzles, but it's been our experience that those who have reported those issues had problems prior to the switch to ULSD. Similar to Ethanol being blamed for every fuel system problem known to man in gasoline-burning small engines, when in fact Ethanol isn't the root cause. It certainly doesn't help matters any, but it is not the 100% guaranteed root cause. Just like the red diesel stuff, a large portion of carburetors I've cleaned this year on boat motors, ATV's, motorcycles, mowers, etc, have had "non-ethanol" fuel used in them religiously. No, I don't like Ethanol blended gasoline, nor do I like ULSD, but manufacturers have been planning for these changes since roughly 1998. Even the older stuff rarely sees problems directly related to ULSD. Again, some say that ULSD has ruined their pumps and nozzles, but IMO, there were prior problems unrelated to ULSD. ULSD just magnified those problems and gave people an avenue to place blame.
As far as the problems with ethanol I've personally seen holes eat in fuel tanks, fuel lines dissolved from the inside, Carbs and fuel pumps ruined by it. Also "NON Ethanol" gasoline by law is allowed 5 % ethanol in it because the tankers that haul fuel don't clean them out before loading up with non ethanol. The only way to know for sure is to test for it. I do and have found as much as 15% in what was suppose to be 10%.
As to the diesel I'm not sure but when my tractor was delivered (L3901) it had about 3/4 tank of red diesel in it. Did its first regen at 8 hours.I've only Filled it up with ULSD highway diesel, 2nd regen at 38 hours, now has 75 hours and hasn't done 3rd regen yet. Something caused the first regen so soon. Just saying.
As to the diesel I'm not sure but when my tractor was delivered (L3901) it had about 3/4 tank of red diesel in it. Did its first regen at 8 hours.I've only Filled it up with ULSD highway diesel, 2nd regen at 38 hours, now has 75 hours and hasn't done 3rd regen yet. Something caused the first regen so soon. Just saying.
Yes here in the land of taxes, in the keystone, state diesel fuelis in fact ultra low sulfur. We are under the same strict draconian rules of the EPA as the rest of the country. And yeah, the only difference between on road and off road fuel is the red dye and no road tax
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Holes in fuel tanks....fuel lines...etc...is not 100% caused by Ethanol.
UV light causes a lot of it. Combined with moisture.
We need to keep in mind that manufacturers had to change materials that they make fuel system components out of, a few times, over the last 10-15 years. There was a time before this that fuel system stuff lasted almost forever. Then right around 12 years or so ago, stuff changed. Now we are seeing the effects of the material changes. Stuff basically falling apart, specifically in the saw/weed-eater markets.
Aluminum components that are not anodized, will corrode. But not because of ethanol. Because of WATER. The fuel does contain some E, and it in itself is hygroscopic. Also, the blend of fuel that we have had in the last few years is a LOT more likely to evaporate. When it does, just like anything else that changes state, it loses heat. As the heat is lost, it and the container that is holding it, attracts condensation. The condensation causes damage to UN-anodized aluminum, brass, and copper components.
The whole fuel regulation is corrupt, In my own personal opinion. 5% or lower ethanol content can be legally labeled "no ethanol". At least that is my understanding. If it's 7% or higher, it has to be labeled "up to 10% ethanol content".
Back to diesels...since that is what we're dealing with most on this site. Keep in mind that all tractors nowdays are required to have a DPF and DOC. This also requires ULSD. So, you cannot any longer run down to the local kum-and-go and get off road diesel and expect it to be LSD, it is, in fact, dyed ULSD and nothing more. Per EPA. It is not taxed as much as highway diesel, hence the usual cheaper price, and also hence the reason that a highway vehicle caught running dyed diesel can be fined heavily. It is not because of the fuel itself, it's because the highway vehicles are allegedly attempting to avoid paying the tax that normally highway diesel is imposed upon them.
Back to gasoline. Grab you a glass mason jar, and fill it about 1/2 way with regular gasoline. Grade doesn't matter. Mark the level of the fuel with a sharpie or paint pen. Let it sit a few hours, outside is good, in the sun better. You will see how fast it evaporates. I have done this on a hot humid mid-south day and about 50% of the contents evaporated in less than 8 hours time. In 24 hours, 70% of the contents was gone. What was left? Kind of like saltwater. When it evaporates, it leaves salt behind. In the bottom of the gas jar was something that smelled like turpentine. It had a leftover main jet from a carb job that I was working on at the time, and that jet had actually started turning kind of darker color, as if the "gas" was attacking it somehow. Somewhere I have pictures of this phenomena as I did it at work to show the guys that non-ethanol and E10 were almost identical as far as evaporation. Non-E being tested at a 1.5% E content, and the E-10 being tested at 9.7% E. Used testing strips that we have to use at work for testing customer's fuel.
UV light causes a lot of it. Combined with moisture.
We need to keep in mind that manufacturers had to change materials that they make fuel system components out of, a few times, over the last 10-15 years. There was a time before this that fuel system stuff lasted almost forever. Then right around 12 years or so ago, stuff changed. Now we are seeing the effects of the material changes. Stuff basically falling apart, specifically in the saw/weed-eater markets.
Aluminum components that are not anodized, will corrode. But not because of ethanol. Because of WATER. The fuel does contain some E, and it in itself is hygroscopic. Also, the blend of fuel that we have had in the last few years is a LOT more likely to evaporate. When it does, just like anything else that changes state, it loses heat. As the heat is lost, it and the container that is holding it, attracts condensation. The condensation causes damage to UN-anodized aluminum, brass, and copper components.
The whole fuel regulation is corrupt, In my own personal opinion. 5% or lower ethanol content can be legally labeled "no ethanol". At least that is my understanding. If it's 7% or higher, it has to be labeled "up to 10% ethanol content".
Back to diesels...since that is what we're dealing with most on this site. Keep in mind that all tractors nowdays are required to have a DPF and DOC. This also requires ULSD. So, you cannot any longer run down to the local kum-and-go and get off road diesel and expect it to be LSD, it is, in fact, dyed ULSD and nothing more. Per EPA. It is not taxed as much as highway diesel, hence the usual cheaper price, and also hence the reason that a highway vehicle caught running dyed diesel can be fined heavily. It is not because of the fuel itself, it's because the highway vehicles are allegedly attempting to avoid paying the tax that normally highway diesel is imposed upon them.
Back to gasoline. Grab you a glass mason jar, and fill it about 1/2 way with regular gasoline. Grade doesn't matter. Mark the level of the fuel with a sharpie or paint pen. Let it sit a few hours, outside is good, in the sun better. You will see how fast it evaporates. I have done this on a hot humid mid-south day and about 50% of the contents evaporated in less than 8 hours time. In 24 hours, 70% of the contents was gone. What was left? Kind of like saltwater. When it evaporates, it leaves salt behind. In the bottom of the gas jar was something that smelled like turpentine. It had a leftover main jet from a carb job that I was working on at the time, and that jet had actually started turning kind of darker color, as if the "gas" was attacking it somehow. Somewhere I have pictures of this phenomena as I did it at work to show the guys that non-ethanol and E10 were almost identical as far as evaporation. Non-E being tested at a 1.5% E content, and the E-10 being tested at 9.7% E. Used testing strips that we have to use at work for testing customer's fuel.
As to the fuel tanks and lines I've seen it personally. Not only Aluminium tanks (anodized tanks)but also Fiberglass fuel tanks with holes eat in them directly caused by ethanol. I've seen the liner in fuel lines. (the new fuel lines forced on the marine industry in the last 3 years dissolving as well as other components. Ethanol is as you mentioned hygroscopic but where the problem comes in is when the quantity of water passes 1/2 of 1% the ethanol will leave the fuel and mix with the water forming a very corrosive mixture that goes to the bottom of the tank and is the first thing picked up thru the fuel pickup tube attacking every component in the fuel system. And it will absorb water straight from the air. put 3 or 4 inches of gas in a jar and set it out uncovered on a humid day and you can see the moisture sinking in the fuel. I've seen the problems caused directly by ethanol in everything from 2 hp 2 strike outboards to 1500hp racing sterndrive engines.
no problem with off road fuel as long as it's ULSD. red dye is just so you won't use it on the highway, as you don't pay highway tax on the fuel. the feds want their highway taxes.
check your service instructions, kabota recommends that you change the brass/copper o-rings on the drain plugs, every time they are removed. so be sure to get few of them when you pick up your oil and fuel filters.
check your service instructions, kabota recommends that you change the brass/copper o-rings on the drain plugs, every time they are removed. so be sure to get few of them when you pick up your oil and fuel filters.