New Kubotas delivered with Super UDT-2 in front axle case?

[sheepfarmer]

I was inspired by the warm weather to check the level in the front axle case, and no oil was evident. Manual says either S UDT-2 or SAE80, 90 gear oil. Since I don't want to change it just now, just top it off, the question is which is likely to be in it now? Or does it matter if you mix them?

The dealer owner is on vacation this time of year, and the tech that prepped my tractor and did the 50 hr service is no longer there. I would guess the SUDT-2, but I don't know if the tractors come from the factory with oil in the front axle case already, or if this is something the individual dealers do.

Anyone know? This is a 2014 L3560, 4wd, HST.

 

[85Hokie]

that is a great question - I have never heard a definitive answer on what comes from the factory......

it will not hurt to mix - in a perfect world you would want the same in there that is in there....... but think of how many times someone "mixes" oil, either weights or types.

Fill 'er up and then change it when you get time and hours. ( in you climate you might want to go with the S-UDT2 - just for the viscosity advantage)

 

[sheepfarmer]

Lugbolt has mentioned SUDT-2 is put in the transmissions from the factory, but I have the impression these things are crated for shipping, and so wondered if the axles and wheels were separate?

I kind of thought, mixed oil was better than no oil, but it messes with my OCD...

 

[Mike9]

Call customer service at the plant and maybe they can run your serial # and tell you.

 

[skeets]

I have my doubts that it comes from the factory with SUDT-2 in the hydraulics or front end

 

[sheepfarmer]

Good point Mike. Dunno about calling but I have had responses to other questions via their email service. Thanks!

 

[ItBmine]

All I can say is I have asked two factory reps at a dealer show whether I should use UDT or gear oil in the front axle and they both said UDT.

I mentioned about people on forums saying they've experienced seal leaks with UDT. They said that has nothing to do with it, and from what they have seen, most people can't differentiate between seals sweating and a leak.

I also asked about pressure build up when I take the filler cap/dip stick out, after I have seen threads of people putting vented caps on, and they said it is supposed to have pressure. That helps to keep contaminants out.

I like running UDT anyway, as I always have enough left in a pail after I do the trans change, I can use it for the front axle.

 

[coachgeo]

All I can say is I have asked two factory reps at a dealer show whether I should use UDT or gear oil in the front axle and they both said UDT.

I mentioned about people on forums saying they've experienced seal leaks with UDT. They said that has nothing to do with it, and from what they have seen, most people can't differentiate between seals sweating and a leak.

I also asked about pressure build up when I take the filler cap/dip stick out, after I have seen threads of people putting vented caps on, and they said it is supposed to have pressure. That helps to keep contaminants out.

I like running UDT anyway, as I always have enough left in a pail after I do the trans change, I can use it for the front axle.

Pressure makes since. I know on Unimogs they pressurize the tranny and axles to keep water and crud out as well.

 

[rkidd]

I had the same issue with my newB2650. Front fluid was on the dipstick but a little low and me being anal wanted to top it off. After checking manual wasn't sure to use UDT or 80/90. I went to my dealer who has been great to check and was told my tractor comes with UDT in the front differential from the factory. I am sure I read somewhere that UDT and the SUDT-2 are compatible if need be. hope this helps.

 

[Dhunt4work]

My local dealer always uses UDT even though the book says Super UDT. I just go with UDT.

 

[RCW]

When I drained my front axle as part of my 50 hour service, I'm almost sure UDT or SUDT2 came out. It really didn't look like 80/90 gear oil.

Filled it back with SUDT2.

 

[tiredguy]

If it were mine I'd top it off with whatever I had available to add and
not worry about mixing the different fluids up. Or you could simply take
a piece of hose/wire whatever you could poke in there to get to the fluid
and you probably could tell what it is then without any problem then add
what's needed.
I would rather have lubrication than not is why I say I wouldn't be to
concerned now with mixing it's better than running it without enough.
Then just change it in the spring when the weather warms up with what
it's supposed to be.
Al

 

[sheepfarmer]

When I drained my front axle as part of my 50 hour service, I'm almost sure UDT or SUDT2 came out. It really didn't look like 80/90 gear oil.

Filled it back with SUDT2.

I wondered if it was possible to tell them apart by looking, but short of draining out a sample, which I am a little reluctant to try, I can't get much of a look from check hole. Mine doesn't have a dipstick. If I only had a long pipette I could get a sample from the "add" bolt hole. UDT and SUDT seem to be nearly perfectly transparent judging from transmission dipstick. Is 80/90 gear oil more colored?

I also have been told UDT and SUDT can be mixed, it was just the gear oil I wasn't sure of, but it sounds like no one has ever heard of it clumping up or anything else weird, so since I have a couple of quarts of SUDT I can put that in and see if it brings the level up to the check hole before I next use it, if I haven't found out anything different.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Pap]

My BX 2360 was very low when I bought it (2011). My manual says UDT is what I should use. I called my dealer and told them it was low and they dropped off 1 gallon of UDT for me. When you fill it up take the vent nuts off the top of the knuckle beside the wheels. This will let the air out while filling it up.

 

[RCW]

I wondered if it was possible to tell them apart by looking

UDT or SUDT2 will be thinner, and 80/90 gear oil will be more viscous, almost as thick as cold maple syrup, if that helps.

You're from maple country, so I'm hoping on that one......

I would stick something clean in there as a makeshift dipstick, and see how thick the stuff is in it. I'm guessing UDT, and like the other guys said; I would top it off with whatever is handy either way.

Another 35 days, its time for me to tap trees...

 

[sheepfarmer]

Update: called dealer this morning and he had not managed to escape the winter yet, which is unfortunately no longer warm, but 10 oF. The new Kubotas now come in with S UDT-2 in the front axle case, and their usual protocol is to switch to 80/90 gear oil on the first change.

I couldn't find any additional vents on the knuckle in either the WSM or on the tractor. The 3560 and I think the 4060 just have a rt and left drain holes, a single check hole and a single bolt to remove to put new oil in. He confirmed that the technique for this arrangement is to open check hole and fill hole, pour in new oil until it runs out check hole. Cap and either wait a day or so until oil migrates over to other side and recheck, or run it and recheck. The bigger 60s might have a right check plug as well as a left one given the way the wsm is written, either that or it is a mistake.

 

[Billdog350]

Just my $.02 being a self employed Kubota service tech for the past 8+ years.....

Gear lube allows water to separate out and ICE will form in your axles, causing the final drive gears to freeze and or breaking the housing or blowing the cap off the bottom of your axle, depending on the design on your machine. I've seen machines where they couldn't move it due to the front axle being frozen.

UDT allows water to mix and emulsify which is less likely to freeze solid. Its gets more slushy than solid.

Yes UDT will leak out of a WORN axle seal. Yes gear lube will leak LESS. Either way you have a worn seal that needs replacing. Replace the seal if it leaks, don't use a band aid. Dirt can still be getting IN your seal regardless how much is leaking out.

Lastly, try to move your machine at 0 deg or -10 or whatever. Try to imagine the literal taffy pull with gear lube...extra strain on trans and all running gear plus the lube isn't getting where it needs to. UDT flows nicely, its like a 5w or 10w....SUDT2 is synthetic and will flow even better.

Both will work but JMO SUDT2 or even just UDT will work BETTER. The largest Kubotas don't take more than about 1-2 gallons of fluid. I believe gear lube is actually same or more cost per quart than UDT, esp if you just do some generic UDT stuff in the axle (never in the transmission or hydraulic system).

After seeing a few axle caps popped off on the machines with gear lube in VT when it was very cold out due to the water separating and freezing, it convinced me to never use gear lube in the front axle.

Down south where it never freezes, I can see gear lube working just fine.

 

[85Hokie]

BillDog,

well said, specially the part about leaking - if there is a worn place, it will leak out vs the thicker 80w-90. But then again, if you are using a thicker oil just to stop a leak, then the process needs to be rethought!

 

[Benhameen]

Just my $.02 being a self employed Kubota service tech for the past 8+ years.....

Gear lube allows water to separate out and ICE will form in your axles, causing the final drive gears to freeze and or breaking the housing or blowing the cap off the bottom of your axle, depending on the design on your machine. I've seen machines where they couldn't move it due to the front axle being frozen.

UDT allows water to mix and emulsify which is less likely to freeze solid. Its gets more slushy than solid.

Yes UDT will leak out of a WORN axle seal. Yes gear lube will leak LESS. Either way you have a worn seal that needs replacing. Replace the seal if it leaks, don't use a band aid. Dirt can still be getting IN your seal regardless how much is leaking out.

Lastly, try to move your machine at 0 deg or -10 or whatever. Try to imagine the literal taffy pull with gear lube...extra strain on trans and all running gear plus the lube isn't getting where it needs to. UDT flows nicely, its like a 5w or 10w....SUDT2 is synthetic and will flow even better.

Both will work but JMO SUDT2 or even just UDT will work BETTER. The largest Kubotas don't take more than about 1-2 gallons of fluid. I believe gear lube is actually same or more cost per quart than UDT, esp if you just do some generic UDT stuff in the axle (never in the transmission or hydraulic system).

After seeing a few axle caps popped off on the machines with gear lube in VT when it was very cold out due to the water separating and freezing, it convinced me to never use gear lube in the front axle.

Down south where it never freezes, I can see gear lube working just fine.

Thank you for this well thought out informative response. I have started the 400 hr service on my L3800. I say started because the dealer only sold me 5 gallons of SUDT for my hydraulics, I questioned them a few times but they were sure that's all I needed, so its sitting there just over a gallon short. With that said, the manual says I need 6.2 gallons. Ill buy 2 more but I wonder how much actually comes out, all 6.2 gallons? I would measure how much I drained but I had a hose pop off and lost a little the last time I used her. I guess it wouldn't hurt to have an extra gallon laying around just for times like that if I don't end up needing it.

Sorry got a little side tracked, coffee is good....

Back to the front axles, our climate here in Southern Illinois can be pretty cold but nothing like you guys see up north also hot but nothing like the south. Even when its really hot/cold it's not usually for long periods of time. I have gone back and forth as to whether or not to use SUDT or just the UDT, even considered just gear oil. I believe it has the SUDT in there now. But if I'm reading your post correctly I should be fine with UDT, is that correct? Actually im 100 hrs away from needed to change it, I just went ahead and changed the trans/hydraulic fluid because it was low from the leak. It looked almost identical to the new I put back in it and the filter magnet had little to nothing on it.

Cheers, maybe I should might skip that next cup of coffee...

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks, Billdog, I appreciate hearing the rationale. I was leaning toward SUDT-2 if for no other reason than fewer different kinds of oil to keep around.