HP required for offset flail mower, and radio install?

[stgarrity]

Looking to buy our first tractor and could use some advice...have been browsing here for a while and learned a lot, but slightly different questions than the last hundred threads I've read.

We live on 40 acres in the Sierra Nevada foothills in northern California, and run cattle, sheep & goats (for fun, both of us have full-time jobs). We've lived here ~6 years and done it all by hand and with a beat up old F150, a ride-on mower, spray trailer, etc but finally decided it was time to buy a tractor.

Key jobs are grading a long gravel driveway (grading scraper or box?), fencing (FEL + auger), lots of little excavation projects (french drains, trenching, etc - planning on a backhoe, also for fun), pallets (bee hives, etc), mowing the roadside and pond edges (thinking an offset flail mower here, as some of it has weirdly angled banks), and brushing (thinking about a wood chipper and eventually a grapple) … plus my kids are the age they just want to drive / ride around. I’m sure there’ll be some spraying and other various tasks that come up. (budget isn't infinite, but I am definitely optimizing for saving time and having fun over the capital costs)

We've narrowed in on an L series, and debating the L2502 vs something like the L3902 ... my gut is that the difference in price is probably worth the option value at the very least for more power on the PTO, but I was surprised that the sales guy was trying to talk me out of it. Any thoughts from the experienced folks here?

Specifically, I think my questions are
- how much HP do I need to run an offset flail reasonably well?
- anyone know of specific tradeoffs between the Titan, MechMaxx, and the Del Marino? (I've watched the videos on Youtube so looking more for direct experiences, not horsepower specs ... people seem to run these at 25HP but is there an advantage bigger?)
- is DEF really that annoying if I go above 25HP?

Finally, a random unrelated question ... I'm planning on installing a radio / intercom system (Rugged Radios or equiv, weatherproof, usually built for Baja-style racing) so I can use the GMRS radio system we use (bad cell coverage) for both ground guides and talking to the house. Has anyone done this or seen this done, and have advice on install locations or wiring harnesses? The sales guy looked at me like I was crazy for wanting to do it without a cab.

Thank you!

(edited to say “not horsepower specs” instead of “or horsepower specs”)

 

[JimmyJazz]

Looking to buy our first tractor and could use some advice...have been browsing here for a while and learned a lot, but slightly different questions than the last hundred threads I've read.

We live on 40 acres in the Sierra Nevada foothills in northern California, and run cattle, sheep & goats (for fun, both of us have full-time jobs). We've lived here ~6 years and done it all by hand and with a beat up old F150, a ride-on mower, spray trailer, etc but finally decided it was time to buy a tractor.

Key jobs are grading a long gravel driveway (grading scraper or box?), fencing (FEL + auger), lots of little excavation projects (french drains, trenching, etc - planning on a backhoe, also for fun), pallets (bee hives, etc), mowing the roadside and pond edges (thinking an offset flail mower here, as some of it has weirdly angled banks), and brushing (thinking about a wood chipper and eventually a grapple) … plus my kids are the age they just want to drive / ride around. I’m sure there’ll be some spraying and other various tasks that come up. (budget isn't infinite, but I am definitely optimizing for saving time and having fun over the capital costs)

We've narrowed in on an L series, and debating the L2502 vs something like the L3902 ... my gut is that the difference in price is probably worth the option value at the very least for more power on the PTO, but I was surprised that the sales guy was trying to talk me out of it. Any thoughts from the experienced folks here?

Specifically, I think my questions are
- how much HP do I need to run an offset flail reasonably well?
- anyone know of specific tradeoffs between the Titan, MechMaxx, and the Del Marino? (I've watched the videos on Youtube so looking more for direct experiences, or horsepower specs ... people seem to run these at 25HP but is there an advantage bigger?)
- is DEF really that annoying if I go above 25HP?

Finally, a random unrelated question ... I'm planning on installing a radio / intercom system (Rugged Radios or equiv, weatherproof, usually built for Baja-style racing) so I can use the GMRS radio system we use (bad cell coverage) for both ground guides and talking to the house. Has anyone done this or seen this done, and have advice on install locations or wiring harnesses? The sales guy looked at me like I was crazy for wanting to do it without a cab.

Thank you!

Each mower manufacturer will supply the PTO horsepower range requirement for their respective units. Often there are light, medium, and heavy duty versions offered by the same manufacturer with different capabilities and requirements. Good luck.

 

[stgarrity]

Each mower manufacturer will supply the PTO horsepower range requirement for their respective units. Often there are light, medium, and heavy duty versions offered by the same manufacturer with different capabilities and requirements. Good luck.

Sorry, typo in my original post (now fixed). I’ve read all the specs, obviously. I’m wondering if anyone has experience at the bottom end of the range, and if it actually works well or not. In many places I have experience (not this), being at the absolutely bottom of a manufacturer’s range technically does work, but it doesn’t work very well. I’m curious if that is true here, or not.

 

[jyoutz]

I hate to sound like a broken record but for 40 acres with rolling hills I would be looking at a larger frame, heavier machine; something like a grand L or a MX. Weight and stability are your friend. The large front wheels on the MX adds a considerable degree of stability and smooths out the small low spots on the land as you travel.

 

[mcmxi]

Sorry, typo in my original post (now fixed). I’ve read all the specs, obviously. I’m wondering if anyone has experience at the bottom end of the range, and if it actually works well or not. In many places I have experience (not this), being at the absolutely bottom of a manufacturer’s range technically does work, but it doesn’t work very well. I’m curious if that is true here, or not.

You won't get into DEF until you pass the 75hp mark or so, but you'll have DPF from 25hp up to 75hp.

I have a Del Morino Centurion Super 158 which has hydraulic offset and a rotating head and it's one tough flail given how compact it is. The ability to rotate the head makes servicing the hammers extremely easy, but also allows the flail to cut ditch banks and such, or even a hedge.

Titan is a Chinese brand and makes crappy flails and other implements. They copy better products but don't seem to know where to focus the quality and don't add strength where it's needed. I saw a Titan flail on this forum that had torn out one of the cylinder mounting points due to Titan ignorance and incompetence. I'm not saying that Del Morino is the best, but they're a lot better than Titan, and if like me you tend to buy once, and cry once, and keep the implement, then they're a solid choice.

I'm always in favor of more power since it buys you margin when you add weight and then cut or blow/push snow or whatever. I'm on a hilly 20 acres and the MX doesn't struggle anywhere despite wheel weights, liquid ballast, FEL and front/rear implements. HP buys you capability when cutting thick stuff or doing any number of tasks. Other than the cost and DPF (which isn't a big deal) I see nothing but an advantage investing in a more capable machine in the 40hp+ range.

 

[chim]

I hate to sound like a broken record but for 40 acres with rolling hills I would be looking at a larger frame, heavier machine; something like a grand L or a MX. weight and stability are your friend. The large from wheels on the MX adds a considerable degree of stability and smooths out the small low spots on the land as you travel.

Agree with the larger recommendation. I don't have much experience with hilly property, but can tell you that I wish I'd have gotten the L3900 when I bought my L3200 back in 2012. Seems like requirements keep growing but tractors don't. Of course then I may not have ended up with the L4240

 

[jyoutz]

Agree with the larger recommendation. I don't have much experience with hilly property, but can tell you that I wish I'd have gotten the L3900 when I bought my L3200 back in 2012. Seems like requirements keep growing but tractors don't. Of course then I may not have ended up with the L4240

I had a small light tractor for 22 years and any degree of slope or small depression was a butt pucker event even though the tires were filled and the wheels at maximum width. None of that anxiety with my MX on the same land.

 

[mcmxi]

I had a small light tractor for 22 years and any degree of slope or small depression was a butt pucker event even though the tires were filled and the wheels at maximum width. None of that anxiety with my MX on the same land.

The other benefit of a bigger tractor with bigger wheels and tires, longer wheel base and wider track width is that the ride is so much better i.e. more comfortable. The MX rides like a Cadillac compared to the BX25 I used to have, and the M takes the ride to another level.

I cut 20x to 30x more area with the bigger tractors now without a single issue related to comfort. The BX used to beat the crap out of me cutting a mere 2 acres or so. There's just no comparison in the power, the capabilities and the ride compared to the 25hp variants.

 

[PaulL]

With an offset flail, I would have thought your limitation is weight of the tractor. You can only run so big a flail out the side before your machine just tips over. I'd say you'll run out of weight before you run out of HP. I'd also suggest that the things you run an offset flail for (banks, hedges etc) tend to be things you do slowly - HP is also a function of speed.

So, I think you could run an offset flail on an L2502, because it'll by necessity be a small flail, and you'll be going slow.

Having said that, you get a lot more HP and size for not that much more money. A grand-L or an MX is a lot more machine, and will let you run a bigger flail more safely. It's hard when you're coming from no tractor to having a tractor at all to understand how big a tractor you really need.

An L2502 will hold its value incredibly well. So you could just buy one and use for a few years (specially while the kids are small-ish), then go to a bigger machine once your'e confident and you see all the tasks that a bigger tractor could do for you.

For fencing.....I'd pay a guy to put the posts in, even if you string the wire yourself. A professional does it way better and way faster. Fencing mostly sucks, so you're not missing out on any fun by hiring it out. Augers are hard to use well and kind of dangerous. A guy with a machine that rams the posts in doesn't have to backfill all those holes.

 

[SDT]

I hate to sound like a broken record but for 40 acres with rolling hills I would be looking at a larger frame, heavier machine; something like a grand L or a MX. weight and stability are your friend. The large from wheels on the MX adds a considerable degree of stability and smooths out the small low spots on the land as you travel.

So would I.

In any event, a 2502 is not big, heavy, or powerful enough to run any offset flail mower and a 3902 is marginal at best.

 

[stgarrity]

Thanks, this is really helpful ... sounds as if we'll definitely end up with more HP, and looking at the MX/M just to see. Struggling to justify $75k+ on a first tractor but maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet.

@PaulL re fencing yeah we have some guys that do the big runs for us, but with enough fencing (and enough goats, as well as hogs) there is often small repair work (eg. 2-3 posts) that doesn't make sense to hire out but needs to get done.

 

[PaulL]

Struggling to justify $75k+ on a first tractor but maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet.

Don't think of it as spending. It's a loan to yourself. The tractor is worth $75K. When you're done with it, you can sell it for $75K. Tractors don't lose a lot of value, new tractors just get more expensive, the one you own tends to be worth most of what you paid for it.

So the real question is whether you can afford the opportunity cost on $75K for the use you're getting. 5% opportunity cost means $4K of value per year. 10% opportunity cost means $7.5K of value a year. I'd assign that much value just to the pleasure of owning a nice machine, let alone the value of not doing things by hand, not hiring things out, things that aren't done at all.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I love my 2501, thats for sure.

But it sure sounds like you need more machine than I do.

I 'accidentally' sat on a m62 a week ago'ish, and let me tell you brother, that is quite an impressive machine.

He just called me back and quoted me 85.5 k..........Although there were things like a 'hydraulic thumb' that it needed.

Its a 'dual edged sword' for sure. And me spending your money is fun and easy!!!!!!

But I do get it, budgets suck.........I wish you luck, and remember "Pics, or it didn't happen!"


Edit: I did not see it brought up, but what is your elevation?

Would you benefit/need a "turbo' machine?

 

[woodman55]

The L's and MX's are hydro's, the M's are power shift. For maneuvering forward and back ( loader and backhoe work), the hydro's are much easier to use. Look at the MX's and the L --60's

 

[BAP]

Sounds like for your situation the biggest thing you need to consider is Safety! If you are mowing on banks near water or letting your kids drive the tractor, you want the most stable, easiest to drive and sure footed tractor you can afford. Going for the bottom of the barrel model and pushing it to its limits because it is cheapest, is just borrowing time for safety. Life is too short to make it even shorter by compromising on tractor choices.

 

[jyoutz]

Thanks, this is really helpful ... sounds as if we'll definitely end up with more HP, and looking at the MX/M just to see. Struggling to justify $75k+ on a first tractor but maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet.

@PaulL re fencing yeah we have some guys that do the big runs for us, but with enough fencing (and enough goats, as well as hogs) there is often small repair work (eg. 2-3 posts) that doesn't make sense to hire out but needs to get done.

I see that Kubota is offering 48 months, no interest financing on the MX open station model. You should be able to get the tractor and loader for under $50K based on their online price builder.

 

[mcmxi]

Thanks, this is really helpful ... sounds as if we'll definitely end up with more HP, and looking at the MX/M just to see. Struggling to justify $75k+ on a first tractor but maybe I just haven't tried hard enough yet.

@PaulL re fencing yeah we have some guys that do the big runs for us, but with enough fencing (and enough goats, as well as hogs) there is often small repair work (eg. 2-3 posts) that doesn't make sense to hire out but needs to get done.

As my signature says, I have an MX6000 and an M6060. They're entirely different animals, and if I had to pick one to keep it'd be the M6060. That said, I would absolutely buy an MX6000 again, or take another longer look at the L6060 with those tiny front tires!

I've made money using the MX and it's a very easy tractor to use for residential type work, but the M is considerably bigger and more complex so there's more of a learning curve to operating it with finesse. Farmers have been using geared shuttle and standard tractors for decades mucking out sheds, moving bales, pulling equipment etc., so as I've said before, running an M isn't like riding a unicycle on a high wire while juggling three balls! Anyone can do it, and do it well.

 

[Sidekick]

Looking to buy our first tractor and could use some advice...have been browsing here for a while and learned a lot, but slightly different questions than the last hundred threads I've read.

We live on 40 acres in the Sierra Nevada foothills in northern California, and run cattle, sheep & goats (for fun, both of us have full-time jobs). We've lived here ~6 years and done it all by hand and with a beat up old F150, a ride-on mower, spray trailer, etc but finally decided it was time to buy a tractor.

Key jobs are grading a long gravel driveway (grading scraper or box?), fencing (FEL + auger), lots of little excavation projects (french drains, trenching, etc - planning on a backhoe, also for fun), pallets (bee hives, etc), mowing the roadside and pond edges (thinking an offset flail mower here, as some of it has weirdly angled banks), and brushing (thinking about a wood chipper and eventually a grapple) … plus my kids are the age they just want to drive / ride around. I’m sure there’ll be some spraying and other various tasks that come up. (budget isn't infinite, but I am definitely optimizing for saving time and having fun over the capital costs)

We've narrowed in on an L series, and debating the L2502 vs something like the L3902 ... my gut is that the difference in price is probably worth the option value at the very least for more power on the PTO, but I was surprised that the sales guy was trying to talk me out of it. Any thoughts from the experienced folks here?

Specifically, I think my questions are
- how much HP do I need to run an offset flail reasonably well?
- anyone know of specific tradeoffs between the Titan, MechMaxx, and the Del Marino? (I've watched the videos on Youtube so looking more for direct experiences, not horsepower specs ... people seem to run these at 25HP but is there an advantage bigger?)
- is DEF really that annoying if I go above 25HP?

Finally, a random unrelated question ... I'm planning on installing a radio / intercom system (Rugged Radios or equiv, weatherproof, usually built for Baja-style racing) so I can use the GMRS radio system we use (bad cell coverage) for both ground guides and talking to the house. Has anyone done this or seen this done, and have advice on install locations or wiring harnesses? The sales guy looked at me like I was crazy for wanting to do it without a cab.

Thank you!

(edited to say “not horsepower specs” instead of “or horsepower specs”)

I was told 4000 pound tractor minimum for a 48 inch offset flail that the 25 hp will handle. Just ordered a 25 hp tractor that comes in at 5100 pounds with rim guard and loader that I am putting a 48 inch on Just for cleaning up around the edges and pond. I originally bought an enrossi sickle bar for this area but the tire size made it dangerous. One little muskrat hole could swallow a wheel and they seem to pop up everywhere. I wasted $5k on that little sickle bar thinking my BX could handle the job but soon found out it is really made for haying flat areas and not for banks. For my use I went with the lowest HP combination for a simple mechanical injection engine with no egr, particlefilter, or computer required to diagnose.
Remember anyone can easily damage an offset flail, even with a smaller tractor. For property your size you definitely will need a bigger machine and bigger mower. I originally looked at a 48hp 6500 pound tractor with a 65 inch mower but got worried a little about it getting stuck in the wet spots so soil conditions are another thing to look at.

 

[stgarrity]

Yeah, the L3901 seems to come in around 4000 lbs with filled tires and the FEL, adding some weights and myself will get it up to 4500 ... for the limited amount I expect to use the offset flail (mostly from paved roads), I think I'll be ok, but if it arrives quickly enough, I will test in on a neighbor's L3901 and have my answer!

Yeah the MX can get under $50k but not with any attachments (esp backhoe), so it's more like $75k as I plan to use it ... that still may be worth it, although it's a long time before my kids can actually drive it (and they won't ride with me eg. near the pond)

Re elevation, we're 2500' so I think we'll be ok non-turbo (no one here has them, at least, I'm sure they are strictly better just price).

 

[jyoutz]

Yeah, the L3901 seems to come in around 4000 lbs with filled tires and the FEL, adding some weights and myself will get it up to 4500 ... for the limited amount I expect to use the offset flail (mostly from paved roads), I think I'll be ok, but if it arrives quickly enough, I will test in on a neighbor's L3901 and have my answer!

Yeah the MX can get under $50k but not with any attachments (esp backhoe), so it's more like $75k as I plan to use it ... that still may be worth it, although it's a long time before my kids can actually drive it (and they won't ride with me eg. near the pond)

Re elevation, we're 2500' so I think we'll be ok non-turbo (no one here has them, at least, I'm sure they are strictly better just price).

I wouldn’t make your decision based on the flail alone. Go drive the L3901 and an MX. if you can, drive them on some uneven ground. The stability of the MX is significantly better. Especially considering the size of your property.