My Kubota dealer deleted my def system on my SVL 95 and then diagnosed the main bearings were bad. I paid them $25K to rebuild the engine. When my Kubota dealer went to load the unit to deliver it back to me, they heard engine knock and discovered they had damaged two cylinders on the new cylinder block. Then my dealer told me my only option was to purchase a new Kubota engine for $47,700. Does anyone have a better option to suggest?
Def delete question... A continuation
- Thread starter John Connolly
- Start date
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Wait, what? How is this a DEF delete question?
As for the engine, you have it in writing that the dealer admits they damaged two cylinders on the new cylinder block? Or at least, that they have rebuilt the engine and it doesn't work properly before they delivered it to you? After charging you $25K? That sounds like a them problem rather than a you problem.
As for the engine, you have it in writing that the dealer admits they damaged two cylinders on the new cylinder block? Or at least, that they have rebuilt the engine and it doesn't work properly before they delivered it to you? After charging you $25K? That sounds like a them problem rather than a you problem.
My Kubota dealer, who I bought it from, said that the retuned engine cause it to run too lean, and therefore burnt the cylinders. Their mechanic ran the Kubota diagnostics program when he deleted the def system to assess the V3800 engine, but they did not run the Kubota diagnostics tool to make sure everything was in spec after they rebuilt the engine. The dealer will not perform a root cause analysis as to why the cylinders got damaged. They just removed the cylinder head, sent me a picture and cost estimate for a new engine, and told me to send my complaint to their lawyer. I am just looking for a way to divorce from these Kubota dealers, and find a competent mechanic to salvage my investment.
More to the point is a Kubota dealer removing federal emission controls country to federal law. I'm incredibly surprised a dealer would do that because the fines are extreme. Since the engine no longer conforms to Kubota specifications because of being deleted. I would not expect that you would be successful in any sort of recovery from the dealer for the engine running lean. Pretty much you're on your own because it's modified, but that's just my two cents.
jyoutz
Well-known member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
This makes zero sense. You paid them to rebuild the engine so it is operational. They delivered a non functional unit. They need to deliver a machine with a functional engine like you paid them for. I would forget hiring a money sucking attorney and instead contact the Kubota factory representative. They will intervene with the dealer and address this. Also if the dealer is doing shady business, this will alert corporate of this information.
I totally agree. I contacted Kabota USA, in Grapevine, Tx. and they told me it was between me and the dealer. Kubota USA will not help. I may go to Kubota Global.
To the point of the other post, I would have expected my Kubota dealer to advise me of their Federal restrictions to modify a regulated engine. Their liability goes back to what they represented when they sold me a package deal, with a Diamond timber cutter. My Kubota dealer represented that the SVL 95, as is, could easily drive this implement. It can’t. It kept overheating under the attachment load. The delete and larger diameter ID quick connects was expected to fix the problem.
Does anyone know if the Reimer product is legitimate? They reprogrammed the ACM and ECM and sent them back for the Kubota mechanic to install.
The dealer claims the Reimer product caused the damage. I don’t know, which is why I am reaching out for some consumer feedback.
The dealer only suspects that the engine ran lean. It’s easy for them to point the finger at Reimer Tuners. The dealer admitted that the head gasket was installed wrong by their mechanic. Can an internal coolant leak cause cylinder damage if the engine was only run for a few hours at the most at the dealer shop?
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Ok, let's just put this one to bed: Diesel engines don't run lean like gas engines. There is no throttle on a diesel engine. Diesel engines are always running lean unless at full rpm.
Overheating can damage a diesel engine. Blown head gaskets can cause engine damage, as can over-fueling (ie: running over-rich, "rolling coal").
Who bought and installed the Reimer product? Not that I would expect any help out of that quarter -- I understand the US EPA is going after off-road diesel tuners due to the alleged illegality of their product. I'm not in the US and can't speak to any of that, but I suspect a company selling an illegal product is less than likely to stand behind it when damage occurs.
Overheating can damage a diesel engine. Blown head gaskets can cause engine damage, as can over-fueling (ie: running over-rich, "rolling coal").
Who bought and installed the Reimer product? Not that I would expect any help out of that quarter -- I understand the US EPA is going after off-road diesel tuners due to the alleged illegality of their product. I'm not in the US and can't speak to any of that, but I suspect a company selling an illegal product is less than likely to stand behind it when damage occurs.
Thank you for this information. I paid for all the parts, the dealer did all the work and testing. The dealer mechanic was on the phone and txt with the Reimer technician while doing whatever they do to make adjustments. This is an off road engine. I was told it was exempt. If you know the applicable EPA regulations please let me know the citation.
If it were exempt it would not have had emission controls from Kubota. Tier 4 is the emission standard it has to comply with...
Final Rule for Control of Emissions of Air Pollution From Nonroad Diesel Engines and Fuel | US EPA
Proposed Rule for Control of Emissions of Air Pollution From Nonroad Diesel Engines and Fuel
www.epa.gov
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
simply, in a nut shell...
you buy the tractor from them (hope yo have pictures...)
time passes..engine runs bad
take to dealer
they diagnose and make repairs, $25k worth ...
it doesn't drive onto trailer for delivery to you
THEY have to 'make it right'.
am I missing anything ?
you buy the tractor from them (hope yo have pictures...)
time passes..engine runs bad
take to dealer
they diagnose and make repairs, $25k worth ...
it doesn't drive onto trailer for delivery to you
THEY have to 'make it right'.
am I missing anything ?
The only smoke being blown is that from the dealer. Believe what is written above.
The folks in Grapevine TX have only one purpose and that is to get you off the phone.
Captain13
Active member
Equipment
M7040 4WD ROPS, ZD28, Woods (84” box blade, 72” harrow, 48” pallet forks)
Well, if the dealer did it, he is liable for a very hefty fine. Individual tampering is around $4800 per offense. Dealer tampering gets into the federal side (EPA) which is around $48,000 per offense. Most of what you will find regarding the fines from the state and fees just talks about diesel trucks. However, the law says “cars, trucks and equipment”.
Here’s a little warning from Farm News. https://www.farm-equipment.com/arti...llegal-tampering-the-right-to-repair-movement
The dealer sucks here, for sure. But, this entire situation could get ugly. I seriously doubt that deleting DEF did this. Def is used after the fuel is in the exhaust, not before. Unless the tuner changed computer parameters that caused the damage, it just sounds like a bad rebuild.
Here’s a little warning from Farm News. https://www.farm-equipment.com/arti...llegal-tampering-the-right-to-repair-movement
The dealer sucks here, for sure. But, this entire situation could get ugly. I seriously doubt that deleting DEF did this. Def is used after the fuel is in the exhaust, not before. Unless the tuner changed computer parameters that caused the damage, it just sounds like a bad rebuild.
jyoutz
Well-known member
Equipment
MX6000 HST open station, FEL, 6’ cutter, forks, 8’ rear blade, 7’ cultivator
You need to fInd the Kubota factory representative. They are the mediator between a unsatisfied customer and the dealer. I’m not surprised about burnt cylinders due to a chip or other emissions modification. My neighbor is a service manager for a car dealership. He says that burnt cylinders are common with diesels that have been chipped or other emissions modified. But you’re saying the damage is to a newly rebuilt engine. In which case the fault is with the rebuild job, because it takes awhile for those issues to occur due to modifications. But I’ve heard enough of these stories that my truck with Cummins motor is completely stock and will stay that way.
muttbarker
Member
Equipment
Kubota L4060 HST, Snowblower, FEL, Rear Blade, 60" Grapple, 6' Bush Hog, Forks
Hi John - not sure who you contacted at Kubota - but I had an issue a while back and did a direct reach out to some senior managers and got a very positive response.
(Mod Edit email removed emails in PM only)- He is the Senior Vice President for Sales Operations, Supply Chain and Parts. He was super helpful in resolving my issue.
Kevin Barker
Thank you for this advice. Finding the Kubota factory representative will not be easy when Kubota and their dealer are non cooperative. I will push on.
Thank you sir.
This is the best path. The dealer, from your description, has done things wrong start to finish and has documented it. Your lawyer to their lawyer should be a short discussion, with their lawyer telling them to settle fast and make you happy. Before it goes to court, Kubota gets involved, and the dealer begins to realize how much trouble they are in.
The main issue here is that the emissions have been deleted on your machine. And I assume you have been a party to this as well as you dealer. I would not admit this by the way. The OEM will have nothing to do with this scenario as it is in violation of Federal law. They may admonish the dealer behind the scenes but they will most likely not help you of you have requested the delete.