Confused

[#40Fan]

You will need to hook into the Power Beyond Port. I'm sure if you search YouTube for third function install videos, you'll find out where yours is located.

 

[TheOldHokie]

You will need to hook into the Power Beyond Port. I'm sure if you search YouTube for third function install videos, you'll find out where yours is located.

No need to search. Power beyond comes right off the loader valve. In the case of the B2601 its a short pipe with banjo fittings on each end.

Dan

 

[Henro]

No need to search. Power beyond comes right off the loader valve. In the case of the B2601 its a short pipe with banjo fittings on each end.

Dan

But it might be cleaner to use an existing provision on the back of the tractor, if one exists. Not sure about the B2601, but on my B2910 there was provision to add an adapter block that provided hose connections into the power beyond circuit. I used this for my rear remotes. A return to tank point still had to be found though, but no big deal.

With the OP planning to put the backhoe on a trailer somehow, however he does it, he will still have to remember to keep the power beyond circuit complete when the backhoe is removed. Not a big deal probably.

 

[fried1765]

Alex (He)


I have heard the same too so I decided to mount it to a trailer and will only need my tractor to move it around and for hydraulic pressure.

The backhoe itself is a Kelley B851.
[/QUOTE

]A very wise choice!

 

[TheOldHokie]

But it might be cleaner to use an existing provision on the back of the tractor, if one exists. Not sure about the B2601, but on my B2910 there was provision to add an adapter block that provided hose connections into the power beyond circuit. I used this for my rear remotes. A return to tank point still had to be found though, but no big deal.

With the OP planning to put the backhoe on a trailer somehow, however he does it, he will still have to remember to keep the power beyond circuit complete when the backhoe is removed. Not a big deal probably.

The provision for factory remotes typically involves a very specific adapter block with a built in tank return. If you are not using a factory valve and associated adapter block it is easier and cleaner to simply pick up pressure from the loader valve power beyond port. In fact that is exactly how the L01 factory remotes work. The main concern is if the back hoe valve does not have a power beyond port it needs to be the next to last device in the pressure circuit just ahead of the 3pt.

Dan

 

[Henro]

The provision for factory remotes typically involves a very specific adapter block with a built in tank return. If you are not using a factory valve and associated adapter block it is easier and cleaner to simply pick up pressure from the loader valve power beyond port. In fact that is exactly how the L01 factory remotes work. The main concern is if the back hoe valve does not have a power beyond port it needs to be the next to last device in the pressure circuit just ahead of the 3pt.

Dan

Well that was not the case for me, not exactly anyway. The adapter block replaced a simple piece that was on the side of the transmission case. Two fittings. One out and one return. Whatever was connected to the power beyond circuit simply was another item in the circuit.

As I stated, I still had to find a return to tank point though. Can't imagine a simpler, cleaner solution though...running hoses all the way up to the loader control valve would work too...just more cumbersome in my opinion...

Granted...I don't understand the details of the OP's needs. Just assuming that his control valve could be inserted in a power beyond circuit. Perhaps another question to be asked by the OP?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well that was not the case for me, not exactly anyway. The adapter block replaced a simple piece that was on the side of the transmission case. Two fittings. One out and one return. Whatever was connected to the power beyond circuit simply was another item in the circuit.

As I stated, I still had to find a return to tank point though. Can't imagine a simpler, cleaner solution though...running hoses all the way up to the loader control valve would work too...just more cumbersome in my opinion...

Granted...I don't understand the details of the OP's needs. Just assuming that his control valve could be inserted in a power beyond circuit. Perhaps another question to be asked by the

The man has a B2601. There is no simple pickup point other than the loader valve. His tractor setup is typical of current Kubota designs,

Top parts diagram is the adapter block for the B2601 factory remotes. It provides pressure out to a Kubota specific sectional valve and pressure return to the 3pt (item 10). A second pipe (item 130) completes the tank return. It is not "simple" and and there is no easy way to use that boss on the transmission with an after market valve. At a minimum you would have to make your own adapter block and then run three hoses to it from your valve. I could do that - most people can not.

Picking up pressure from the loader valve is simple - see second diagram. All you do is remove the little power beyond pipe (90) from the loader valve and replace it with two hoses. That's just a couple banjo to JIC fittings that anyone can handle. Then you find a place for the tank return. The port on the side of the transmission (item 140 in OEM remotes diagram) would be my suggestion and probably the hardest parpart.

Edit: Just realized he is hooking up a hoe so all he needs is the two pressure lines. Even easier.

Dan

 

[torch]

The backhoe itself is a Kelley B851.

Ok, there's an operator's manual for that available for download here:

https://www.kelleymanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/B850-Owners-Manual.pdf

It was available in PTO powered, Power Beyond (Open Center) and Closed Center configurations. Now we just have to figure out which one yours is.

 

[torch]

If it was originally set up with a PTO pump, the reservoir will be bolted to the swing cylinder pivot pads. I think that would be hard to miss if it's there. One of the hoses will go to the reservoir.

If it was set up for Power Beyond or Closed Center operation, then adapters had to be purchased separately and installed on the control valve (pretty typical).

The default seems to be to connect the pressure supply hose to the FEL control Power Beyond port and the return line is supposed to go to the tank. When the backhoe is unmounted, the two hoses on the tractor side have to be coupled together.

As you have a 3ph in the system, the "proper" way to connect this would be the Power Beyond option. If that was installed, you would have a 3rd hose.

I think what Dan is driving at when he talks about "the two pressure lines" is to interupt the pressure line to the 3ph, diverting that to the backhoe, then returning from the backhoe on to the 3ph.

 

[TheOldHokie]

If it was originally set up with a PTO pump, the reservoir will be bolted to the swing cylinder pivot pads. I think that would be hard to miss if it's there. One of the hoses will go to the reservoir.

If it was set up for Power Beyond or Closed Center operation, then adapters had to be purchased separately and installed on the control valve (pretty typical).

The default seems to be to connect the pressure supply hose to the FEL control Power Beyond port and the return line is supposed to go to the tank. When the backhoe is unmounted, the two hoses on the tractor side have to be coupled together.

As you have a 3ph in the system, the "proper" way to connect this would be the Power Beyond option. If that was installed, you would have a 3rd hose.

I think what Dan is driving at when he talks about "the two pressure lines" is to interupt the pressure line to the 3ph, diverting that to the backhoe, then returning from the backhoe on to the 3ph.

You don't need power beyond on the back hoe valve because the 3pt is disabled when the backhoe is mounted. That effectively makes the back hoe valve the last valve in the chain. Kubota did it that way for decades.

Dan

 

[torch]

But (at least on the B7100) they did so with a diverter valve that prevented any flow to the 3ph. Return was to the sump.

 

[TheOldHokie]

But (at least on the B7100) they did so with a diverter valve that prevented any flow to the 3ph. Return was to the sump.

I dont know about the B7100 but many of the more recent models they simply run the tank return back to the pressure return port on the hydraulic outlet. That's why you have to loop the lines together when the hoe is removed.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

You don't need power beyond on the back hoe valve because the 3pt is disabled when the backhoe is mounted. That effectively makes the back hoe valve the last valve in the chain. Kubota did it that way for decades.

Dan

This discussion got me interested so I did some poking in the parts diagrams. It appears Kubota's current strategy (last couple decades) with backhoe plumbing is somewhat schizophrenic.

1. On tractors where the rear remotes are plumbed with hoses coming off the loader valve (e.g. older B series and all standard L's) the backhoes are installed in the power beyond circuit after the rear remote valves and the backhoe tank return goes to the pressure return outlet on the tractor. In other words the backhoe valve is not configured for high pressure carry over (power beyond) because the 3pt is the only downstream valve and it is disabled when the hoe is mounted.
2. On some tractors where the rear remotes are plumbed directly off a boss on the transmission housing the backhoe is plumbed with hoses coming off the loader valve (B01) and winds up ahead of the remotes in the power beyond circuit. Because the remotes could still be used with the backhoe mounted these configurations use a backhoe valve configured for high pressure carry over.
3. On the current Grand L 60's the backhoe is plumbed off a boss on the 3pt lift cover which places it after the rear remote valves and before the 3pt valve. In this configuration the backhoe valve is not configured for high pressure carry over (power beyond) and uses two hoses to connect to the tractor.

To summarize:

1. When the backhoe pressure take off is after ALL factory auxiliary valve options on the tractor the backhoe uses a vanilla open center valve and returns to the 3pt valve.
2. When the backhoe pressure takeoff is ahead of ONE or MORE factory auxiliary valves the backhoe uses an open center valve with high pressure carry over to the remotes/3pt and and a separate tank return.

Since the original question was how to plumb a 3rd party hoe on a B2601 here are the relevant diagrams. The B01 factory remotes (if present) are installed on a transmission boss between the loader valve and the 3pt. The loader valve power beyond port is used for the pressure takeoff and pressure return is to a boss ahead of the remotes - top diagram. If the factory remotes are or ever will be present a third tank return would be needed - second diagram.

B2601/BH70 Pressure Takeoff/Return

B2601/BH70 Tank Return

 

[Alex Dring]

Ok, there's an operator's manual for that available for download here:

https://www.kelleymanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/B850-Owners-Manual.pdf

It was available in PTO powered, Power Beyond (Open Center) and Closed Center configurations. Now we just have to figure out which one yours is.

Sorry for going MIA here. I looked at the backho

The man has a B2601. There is no simple pickup point other than the loader valve. His tractor setup is typical of current Kubota designs,

Top parts diagram is the adapter block for the B2601 factory remotes. It provides pressure out to a Kubota specific sectional valve and pressure return to the 3pt (item 10). A second pipe (item 130) completes the tank return. It is not "simple" and and there is no easy way to use that boss on the transmission with an after market valve. At a minimum you would have to make your own adapter block and then run three hoses to it from your valve. I could do that - most people can not. View attachment 84016

Picking up pressure from the loader valve is simple - see second diagram. All you do is remove the little power beyond pipe (90) from the loader valve and replace it with two hoses. That's just a couple banjo to JIC fittings that anyone can handle. Then you find a place for the tank return. The port on the side of the transmission (item 140 in OEM remotes diagram) would be my suggestion and probably the hardest parpart.

Edit: Just realized he is hooking up a hoe so all he needs is the two pressure lines. Even easier.

Dan


View attachment 84017

Sorry I keep going MIA on my own thread. Been one of them summers.

I did look at the backhoe and there are only two lines from it. They come from the valve body on each side with one of the sides having a pressure gauge on it. I did not see any tank or filter.

In reference to the above diagram item (90) is the magical port/tube? I then remove said item and put in JIC fittings in lieu where (100 and 130) go correct? Do you know where the pressure comes from versus the return? Does pressure come from the side of item (100) or (130)? Guess I will find out when I hook it up and read the pressure gauge on the BH itself. If no pressure just swap the lines.

Does anyone have a parts manual then so I can see what size items 100 and 130 so I can get the JIC fittings and hoses made?

Thank you all for your help and information. Been a long long time since I seen such responses from a forum. Very much appreciated

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sorry for going MIA here. I looked at the backho



Sorry I keep going MIA on my own thread. Been one of them summers.

I did look at the backhoe and there are only two lines from it. They come from the valve body on each side with one of the sides having a pressure gauge on it. I did not see any tank or filter.

In reference to the above diagram item (90) is the magical port/tube? I then remove said item and put in JIC fittings in lieu where (100 and 130) go correct? Do you know where the pressure comes from versus the return? Does pressure come from the side of item (100) or (130)? Guess I will find out when I hook it up and read the pressure gauge on the BH itself. If no pressure just swap the lines.

Does anyone have a parts manual then so I can see what size items 100 and 130 so I can get the JIC fittings and hoses made?

Thank you all for your help and information. Been a long long time since I seen such responses from a forum. Very much appreciated

Pressure comes from the loader valve and goes to the inlet side of the loader valve. Its likely the one with the pressure gauge and may be labeled P.

You need to remove both banjo bolts and measure the diameter of the threads. They will almost surely be BSPP threads. WAG is 3/8 BSPP which measures .825. 1/4 BSPP would measure .515.

Dan

 

[Alex Dring]

Pressure comes from the loader valve and goes to the inlet side of the loader valve. Its likely the one with the pressure gauge and may be labeled P.

You need to remove both banjo bolts and measure the diameter of the threads. They will almost surely be BSPP threads. WAG is 3/8 BSPP which measures .825. 1/4 BSPP would measure .515.

Dan

Thank you sir. I am going to be all over this like a spider monkey this weekend.

 

[SonofOrange]

3 point backhoes are the most dangeous implement that one can install.

[/QUOTE

Is it? I guess you've never seen the guys running a 24" buzz saw off their 3 point.