B2410 black smoke under load

[NoJacketRequired]

Purchased a 2500 hour B2410 and finally got it home in September. It ran great for a high-time tractor (ok, 2500 hours isn't high time on a Kubota, but remember, I'm comparing this against my pair of B7510s, one with less than 700 hours and the other with less than 400 hours). The tractor seemed to have plenty of power to spin the 54" MMM, although it did seem a little smokier than the B7510s. Have to say that cutting grass with this machine is a bit of a dream - it just works very well, despite the mowing deck having lots of wear on it.

Last week I had my first opportunity to run this machine with the B2550 front mounted snowblower. This is actually a pretty nice combination in terms of utility.

My real concern is that, now that I've got white snow to use as a backdrop I can see the tractor is making a fair bit of black smoke in the exhaust. I define a "fair bit" as being a constant stream of black smoke when under normal snowblower load that drags the PTO speed down just a little, so the engine is running at full rated HP. It has lots of power, starts easily and otherwise is in what I would consider very serviceable condition.

A neighbor who has lots of experience with heavy diesels (mining equipment) suggested the injectors are worn, thus dumping more fuel can can be burned efficiently, producing the coal smoke. He warned that continuing to operate in this condition could eventually result in damage to the engine including potentially holing a piston.

For those here who have experience with higher-time Kubota engines in the 1 litre class, does this hypothesis around injectors sound reasonable? If so, should I just get a new set and be done with it? If so, how expensive are these little devils?

If there's another troubleshooting tree up which I should be barking, please do share your wisdom.

Thanks in advance for your helpful suggestions.

 

[Ironman2]

A diesel should smoke under heavy load, especially ones with no turbo. But that is a medium load.
Have you considered that the previous owner may have turned up the fuel at the injection pump?
A continuous over-fueling situation is harmful, and for the pittance it costs, I would replace the injector tips. Then if it still overfuels look at the pump. There are Youtube video on how to turn up kubota's so the same vid shows the way to turn it back.

 

[thepumpguysc]

I think if u look in your maintenance manual you'll see injectors have a service life.{hrs} That they need to be taken out & serviced.. SO its not unusual for this to happen..
Taking them apart, replacing the nozzles is common, as long as u have a torque wrench to tighten them back together.
You can google your engine mdl & include the word "injector" or take 1 apart & get the nozzle # off of it & google THAT #.. They are relatively inexpensive to repair/rebuild..

 

[SidecarFlip]

Have you looked at the air cleaner and secondary element? Usually a diesel smoking can be traced back to a clogged air cleaner.. In my business, I change out air cleaners Primary, every year and check the secondary element and replace that to if it looks at all dirty.

Always do the simple things first....

 

[Kanook]

Have you looked at the air cleaner and secondary element? Usually a diesel smoking can be traced back to a clogged air cleaner.. In my business, I change out air cleaners Primary, every year and check the secondary element and replace that to if it looks at all dirty.

Always do the simple things first....

Had an issue of excessive black smoke on my B2650 while snow blowing. Turned out that the fine snow blow-back from the snowblower was getting sucked into the air intake. Air filter was coated in ice and severely restricting air intake.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Check / change air cleaner, and yes then replace the injectors.

Make sure you're running the tractor a PTO speed, 2600 Engine RPM.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Thanks for the good suggestions, folks.

To answer some questions, primary air filter has about 13 hours on it, secondary is unknown, both visually clean of debris. I've looked at the injection pump and see factory grey paint is intact on fasteners, as are the lead seals on the witness wires (sorry, can't remember right now it there is more than one adjustment that's sealed with witness wire). Injectors have factory grey paint on them in pristine condition so I'm thinking they likely have never been touched.

Wolfman - do you have a rough guess on the cost of injectors? I'm assuming these are a dealer-only part?

Oh, good point on RPM... the tractor will make slightly more than PTO RPM (per the mechanical tach in the instrument panel) when unloaded, maybe 2650 or 2700 - the needle sits just on the high side of the PTO hash mark on the tach so I can see the whole hash mark but no black between the needle and the high side of the hash mark. I won't bog it much below about 2400 if I can at all avoid it. My pair of B7510's get operated the same way. The black smoke from the B2410 is considerably greater than the B7510's when operated in this manner.

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Had an issue of excessive black smoke on my B2650 while snow blowing. Turned out that the fine snow blow-back from the snowblower was getting sucked into the air intake. Air filter was coated in ice and severely restricting air intake.

Kanook - it would seem we're blowing the same kind of snow as I'm operating this B2410 just down the road from you at the Carp airport. Good to see another "valley" person on this forum!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Looks like around $65 US price for rebuilds, $130 new.

And don't get them off ebay or amazon, chances are they won't be any good.

Call or email these guys:
https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

P/N 16032-53000

 

[ThisIsNotaStep]

NoJacketRequired and Kanook .. you are never alone!

 

[Kanook]

Kanook - it would seem we're blowing the same kind of snow as I'm operating this B2410 just down the road from you at the Carp airport. Good to see another "valley" person on this forum!

G'day from the 'valley'... I'm closer to Carp than Almonte..(off bearhill rd). Just got back from filling up my diesel can at the Shell station.

NoJacketRequired and ThisIsNotaStep....looks like a busy snow season this year.

 

[sheepfarmer]

My apologies for derailing briefly, but Kanook I made a frontcover using the corner of an old fitted bedsheet, a rubber band to affix it to the hood mascot, and some magnets on the sides. It covered the whole front grill. It kept the snow out of the airfilter on my b2650 much better than any of the other things I had tried. Engine ran a little warmer, but not hot at all. Not stylish but free. Kubota sells one but above $300.

 

[Kanook]

My apologies for derailing briefly, but Kanook I made a frontcover using the corner of an old fitted bedsheet, a rubber band to affix it to the hood mascot, and some magnets on the sides. It covered the whole front grill. It kept the snow out of the airfilter on my b2650 much better than any of the other things I had tried. Engine ran a little warmer, but not hot at all. Not stylish but free. Kubota sells one but above $300.

Thanks for the info.

 

[bucktail]

We used to use old panty hose over the air cleaner of our blower tractors.

 

[boz1989]

Thanks for the good suggestions, folks.

To answer some questions, primary air filter has about 13 hours on it, secondary is unknown, both visually clean of debris. I've looked at the injection pump and see factory grey paint is intact on fasteners, as are the lead seals on the witness wires (sorry, can't remember right now it there is more than one adjustment that's sealed with witness wire). Injectors have factory grey paint on them in pristine condition so I'm thinking they likely have never been touched.

Wolfman - do you have a rough guess on the cost of injectors? I'm assuming these are a dealer-only part?

Oh, good point on RPM... the tractor will make slightly more than PTO RPM (per the mechanical tach in the instrument panel) when unloaded, maybe 2650 or 2700 - the needle sits just on the high side of the PTO hash mark on the tach so I can see the whole hash mark but no black between the needle and the high side of the hash mark. I won't bog it much below about 2400 if I can at all avoid it. My pair of B7510's get operated the same way. The black smoke from the B2410 is considerably greater than the B7510's when operated in this manner.

I don't know how much black smoke you are getting, but if it's dropping 3-400 rpm, you might just be pushing it a little too much. I have a 2910 that will smoke a little when I push it.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[NoJacketRequired]

Looks like around $65 US price for rebuilds, $130 new.

And don't get them off ebay or amazon, chances are they won't be any good.

Call or email these guys:
https://oregonfuelinjection.com/

P/N 16032-53000

Thanks, Wolfman - you are an absolute wealth of knowledge!

 

[NoJacketRequired]

I don't know how much black smoke you are getting, but if it's dropping 3-400 rpm, you might just be pushing it a little too much. I have a 2910 that will smoke a little when I push it.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

In this case it's dropping maybe 200-300 RPM, perhaps less, which is pretty common when snowblowing. Even more common if starting out above PTO RPM. I need to get an audio or optical tach to check the accuracy of the dash-mounted tachometers - something tells me they're not a high-accuracy device, so we may be talking "horseshoes and hand grenades" where close is good enough!

Was out on the "home tractor" B7510 today blowing some really ugly wet slush. No visible smoke from it except that little puff one always gets on startup. I know it's got to be making some smoke - I just can't see it from the cab.