2004 Kubota ZD21 won't shut off

[jwage]

I researched how this machine works and it has a fuel shut off solenoid that receives 12v of power for 10 seconds when you turn the key off. It pulls an arm in which pulls another lever to stop fuel from getting to the engine. You can just manually pull this lever to stop the engine. It is located underneath the air filter on the right side of the engine. I tested to see if the solenoid was getting power through the white wire and it does not appear to be. I checked all of the fuses and they look fine. Any ideas on what else I should check after that? I was really hoping it was just a bad solenoid but right now it is appearing to be something further upstream in the electrical or something.

It isn't really safe to use until I fix this because the safety shutoff integrated with the seat relies on the shut off solenoid to be working.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Roadworthy]

Look for a pinched or broken wire. If there are any connectors in the circuit you could have a defective connection there. Sometimes these connections just get "tired" or oxidized. Sometimes just unplugging and reconnecting a connector is enough to do it. Work backward from the solenoid to the switch to find where the ten second burst of power is and is not.

 

[jwage]

First thing I tried to do was find where the white wire going to the solenoid goes to but it goes in to a bunch of wires that I can't see where they go. There is a small fuse box with 5 fuses in it and it appears a white wire comes out of the bunch and goes in but I can't get continuity between the end of the wire going to the solenoid and that white wire.

I am trying to find a wiring diagram now to confirm where that white wire is going.

 

[jwage]

I took the solenoid off and tested it in isolation and it is not working. I still can't explain why I can't I'm not getting power to the wire going to the solenoid. Would be crazy if the solenoid is bad and wiring is broken!

I also attached screenshots of the relevant documentation for the engine shut off solenoid in case someone in the future needs it. Took me a while to find it.

The part number is 16851-60011 052600-4530

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[jwage]

Does anyone know where the timer relay is that sends the power to the solenoid? I should probably check that too.

 

[lugbolt]

It's controlled through the fuse, to the OPC controller through a relay. The controller is under the right hand fender, usually covered in grass clippings. They don't die often. Check the fuses first. If the solenoid fails, the fuse will a lot of times burn, which helps protect the wiring and the rest of the system.

 

[jwage]

Thanks. I checked the 20a fuse and it seems like it is still good. It looks ok and it has continuity. Is the relay after or before the fuse? I'm having trouble keeping it straight in my head. Is it battery > fuse > relay > solenoid or battery > relay > fuse > solenoid?

Another thing I noticed is that the terminal for the 20a fuse always has 12v of power even when the key is in the off position. Is this normal? I guess it could be normal if the relay is after the fuse and it fails in the off position? This would explain not getting any power to the solenoid when I turn the key off.

Forgive my simplified explanations, I'm no expert so I'm probably explaining things technically incorrectly but hopefully you get my drift. Thanks!

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[Dave_eng]

From looking on Messicks site I think the bad news is that Kubota incorporated a number of functions in one box they call a controller.

It likely incorporates the shut off timer and operator presence controller.

The wiring diagram shows the solenoid white wire going directly to this one controller.

Dave

 

[jwage]

So it goes from the battery > fuse > combination box > solenoid. Then that is why the fuse always has power and the combination box is what controls only sending power to the solenoid after the key turns off. Am I able to test that wire for power with the solenoid unplugged? It never gets power as far as I can tell.

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[nickelplated5s]

Run a new wire from the fuse box to the solenoid as a test.

 

[jwage]

I tested the solenoid by itself already and it is confirmed to not be working. I am now trying to confirm if there is another problem with the combination box because the solenoid wire is not getting power when it should.

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[Dave_eng]

I tested the solenoid by itself already and it is confirmed to not be working. I am now trying to confirm if there is another problem with the combination box because the solenoid wire is not getting power when it should.

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If you know the solenoid is bad, then I suggest, as step one, you replace it.

After that you can, if you still have a problem, track it down which will be much easier if you are not dealing with more than one problem at a time.

Dave

 

[jwage]

Thanks. I ordered the new solenoid and it gets here tomorrow. I was worried that if the combination box has an issue that it might fry the solenoid again. I will report back here tomorrow. Thanks for your help!

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[Dave_eng]

Thanks. I ordered the new solenoid and it gets here tomorrow. I was worried that if the combination box has an issue that it might fry the solenoid again. I will report back here tomorrow. Thanks for your help!

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The only thing the combination box could do would be to apply power for a long time, far longer than the designed 10 seconds. If I understand your info, you are not getting any power from the combination box's white wire to the solenoid.

Dave

 

[jwage]

While I wait for that new solenoid I wanted to do a little more research and learning. I'm trying to see where that combination box is. Does anyone happen to know?

Here is a picture of the underside of the right fender. The metal box closest in the pic looks like it has the horn/speaker. I don't see anything that looks like a little black box. Is it further up inside the fender where all the control wires are?

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[jwage]

The only thing the combination box could do would be to apply power for a long time, far longer than the designed 10 seconds. If I understand your info, you are not getting any power from the combination box's white wire to the solenoid.



Dave

That is correct. No power at all right now. I'm a newbie though so I was just worried I might be making a mistake in how I'm testing the white wire. I tested multiple times and it never gets power when the key turns to off. I read on a few other threads where the opposite happened and the thing had power all the time and it burned up the solenoid. It doesn't smell like that is what has happened here.

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[jwage]

I found it. Number on the plastic box is K3111 62511

This is the replacement part https://www.messicks.com/part/k3111-62510/controller




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[jwage]

I received the solenoid today and after installing it, everything is working normal again. One thing that I had wrong is it doesn't seem to send power to the solenoid by just turning the key on and off without starting the engine. I was testing it by just turning the key on and off without starting the engine. Once I started up the engine and turned it off, the solenoid actuated and worked as expected.

I swear I tested it by turning the engine on and off and I still didn't receive power to the white wire going to the solenoid so I am wondering if somehow the controller is smart enough to not send power to the white power if it knows the solenoid isn't installed or is broken. As to avoid sending power unnecessarily to a broken solenoid or an open ended wire. It doesn't really matter anymore since I fixed it, but I am just curious now hehe. Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Dave_eng]

Pleased that the solution was a reasonably cheap one.

Thank you for providing the last chapter. We all learn.

Dave