Still have serious issues with my B6100

Eric McCarthy

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Dec 21, 2009
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I still have not quite figured out what keeps killing my battery and why it wont start without jumper cables. I know when I had first asked several months ago I had like 10 different answers. I think I might have some kinda major wiring problem. The reason why I say that is because when I went to off load it from the trailer today I hooked the jumper cables up and it would spark something fierce when I put the positive side on. I went to put the cables on so the tractor would take a bit of a charge and for some reason with the tie down chain hooked to the tractor it caused a short and would spark the battery. As soon as I took the chain off I could make contact to both sides of the battery posts with no sparks at all. Best I can figure is there must be a bare wire rubbin steel somewhere on the tractor.

Any thoughts or ideas?????
 

traildust

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B7610HST 4WD, LA352 FEL, Gearmore 2 Spool Top & Tilt Box Scraper
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Just a stab, but with the tractor on the trailer and chains from the tractor to the trailer AND the trailer connected to a vehicle you were creating a pretty dangerous situation. Those tiny electrons will keep moving and moving AND escaping if you give them a chance.

Here is a copy of my response to your other thread to keep this one going......


"... Damn it, you live way the fuck over there...damn it

Ok, first off, charging a battery on a 2 amp for 24 hours doesn't really mean anything. The battery itself may need to go through a very long deep cycle of reconditioning. Pretty much, there is no charging in this time frame and the battery is getting, for lack of words..a deep tissue massage...yes I said it, so what!

The game changed when you put a brand new battery in there and it still did nothing.

How do the headlights work for proper illumination? Are they very good or poor?

Depending on tooling and funds we will skip the $$$$ section.

Typically the negative cable is from the batt to the frame and the positive is from the batt to the starter.

When you have the time completely disconnect the negative cable from the batt and the frame. Do a really good inspection of both ends. Use a BBQ brush, brillo pad or sand paper and do a very thorough cleaning of all contacts on the cable, frame and batt. Shiny metal is the key! Sometimes the grounding point on the frame may get pretty bad with deep pitted corrosion. Clean it up REAL good and if the metal is no not smooth than do the best you can and level it for good contact.

Moving to the Positive cable, also disconnect both ends and check for condition. Holding the cable in one hand, pull the crimped connectors with your other hand. See if they move separate of the cable and see if you can pull it off the cable. Neither should be able to happen.

A really good charged battery can push amps through those type of conditions BUT the small amount of amperage required to re-charge the batt will never make it.
...."
 
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Eric McCarthy

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I got that and sent back the headlights are beat to hell and the battery ends are brand damn new so what else ya got?
 

traildust

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You mentioned your head light are shot. Do you have access to a meter?

If not get a headlight of any sort and jump some wires to the connections to test. Does it at least shine some what bright or does it look worse than a candle.
 

Eric McCarthy

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When I say beat to hell I mean BEAT TO HELL. the lenses are there but the bulbs got pounded and broke. I have a dent in the hood where the lights are and they dont sit right.
 

traildust

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B7610HST 4WD, LA352 FEL, Gearmore 2 Spool Top & Tilt Box Scraper
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When I say beat to hell I mean BEAT TO HELL. the lenses are there but the bulbs got pounded and broke. I have a dent in the hood where the lights are and they dont sit right.
That doesn't really mater what conditions the current bulbs are in. What we want to know is if you still have access to the wire ends that would go to the bulbs. If you do, then jump in a good headlight from a car. We want to pull some amperage from a circuit and see if it holds. If the light doesn't shine good at idle then ramp up the RPM and see what happens. If nothing happens on either test than perhaps the alternator is shot.

Also, you mentioned the cables are brand new, but you never answered what the connection to the frame was like. How does the frame side look? Is it nice and shiny? If not scrub it clean with anything, even sand might work. Just wear a glove.
 

Eric McCarthy

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The tractor end of the leads is clean. There has to be a bare wire hiting the tractor somewhere is the only thing I can think of. I have a dynamo on the tractor. I dont think the headlights are an option boss. I really dont know if they ever worked cause I've never used them and the houseing where the bulbe plugs in is trashed.
 

traildust

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A dyno will have a voltage regulator.

You think you have a wire making contact in a location it shouldn't. In that case a fuse should have blown somewhere. Have you done a good check over the fuses?

One question: to kill your tractor, do you pull a cable or does it shut down with the key?
 

Eric McCarthy

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I think I dont have but one fuse and it checks out ok. And yeah I pull a cable to shut her down and then turn the key off. Reason why I think theres an exposed wire hiting steel somewhere, like I said when I went to jump it off the truck and the tractor was still chained down it sparked when I hooked the leads up. The first time today I hooked the tractor up first since I know its dead then I plugged the other end in the ass end of the truck and it killed the truck and shut it down. It wasnt until I took the chains off it could hook up the cables with out something going south.
 

traildust

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I think I dont have but one fuse and it checks out ok. And yeah I pull a cable to shut her down and then turn the key off. Reason why I think theres an exposed wire hiting steel somewhere, like I said when I went to jump it off the truck and the tractor was still chained down it sparked when I hooked the leads up. The first time today I hooked the tractor up first since I know its dead then I plugged the other end in the ass end of the truck and it killed the truck and shut it down. It wasnt until I took the chains off it could hook up the cables with out something going south.
You ever hear old timers say "never let the bumpers touch of the vehicles jump starting each other"? Well, that's what you did when you had the chains securing the tractor to the trailer. You shorted the circuit with the anchoring chains.

Since you have a pull to stop for the engine we can eliminate that as a source of troubleshooting measures.....bummer.

I have gained access to a wire diagram for a B6100. It shows to fuses, one for the fuel delivery pump and the other in the light circuit that is also combined with the horn, if you have one.

Eric, you are going to have to get a volt/ohm meter. for further trouble shooting.

I'm done for the night. My eyes are starting to see double and burn.......later!
 

Eric McCarthy

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Well it looks like I need to get crackin checking out some wires and seeing whats what with that dept. Never occured to me that the tie down chain would cause a problem. Ya figure rubber tires on a wood deck trailer would not be an issue. I think maybe I'll start at the head lights since they are trashed. And check into the horn area because that doesnt work either.
 

JWB

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Eric,
Just a thought......Have you removed the batt. and checked the voltage? I have seen the buss bars break inside the batt. and create a short circut situation inside the batt. In this instance it would be like short circuting the donor vehicle when you try to jumb start. If the batt has an internal short it will have a low/no voltage reading. good luck and let me know what you find i'll be watching to see......
JWB
 

kubotabee

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l305dt
Apr 17, 2010
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new brunswick
I still have not quite figured out what keeps killing my battery and why it wont start without jumper cables. I know when I had first asked several months ago I had like 10 different answers. I think I might have some kinda major wiring problem. The reason why I say that is because when I went to off load it from the trailer today I hooked the jumper cables up and it would spark something fierce when I put the positive side on. I went to put the cables on so the tractor would take a bit of a charge and for some reason with the tie down chain hooked to the tractor it caused a short and would spark the battery. As soon as I took the chain off I could make contact to both sides of the battery posts with no sparks at all. Best I can figure is there must be a bare wire rubbin steel somewhere on the tractor.

Any thoughts or ideas?????
My experience has been that when you see a spark when reconnecting cables to the battery, it is for certain that current is being drawn....hence you have a battery that is being drained.
So, I would think that you could very likely suspect the starter.
If no fuses are being blown, then the starter may be your source of current being drawn when you are not using the tractor.
Disconnect the small wire to the starter solenoid and the large wire connecting the relay o/p and battery and after charging the battery, let'er sit overnight.
My bet is that if the starter is the prob, the battery will still be up to charge.

A solenoid that is stuck in operate will do this and so will a bad armature in the starter.

..Later.

Kubobee.
 

B7100

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B7100,B7100 with Backhoe and FEL, Goldoni Quad 20
Feb 11, 2010
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Just a thought,have you checked that the B6100 has the same polarity ground as the one used to jump it,..If they were different,not a problem if no contact between vehicles but could be the reason for the flash (depending how big a flash) when the chain was connected and why the bumpers should not touch!
Dave
 
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Eric McCarthy

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Dec 21, 2009
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I can jump it all day long with the tractor siting on the trailer and the trailer hitched to the truck. For some reason the tie down chain made a differance. I had once first hooked the jumper cable ends to the tractor first and the truck last figured the tractor is dead for sure and as soon as I pluged the truck side up it shut the truck down. I think a few days befor hand I blew a fuse in the truck cause not all the lights work on the truck.
 

traildust

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B7610HST 4WD, LA352 FEL, Gearmore 2 Spool Top & Tilt Box Scraper
Jan 27, 2010
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Nope!!!!!!
A multimeter is the holy grail of electrical troubleshooting. Beg, steal or borrow one as it will be required to trouble shoot your tractor.

You may have a bad rectifier/voltage regulator, bad generator (dyno), open wires, or bad wire connections. It will be almost impossible to find any of this without the meter :(