CRAZY TRAIN has gone OFF THE RAILS

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eserv

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

So if I am interpreting you correctly, your beliefs and opinions are more important than everyone else’s!!! I am not saying that I don’t believe that the climate of the Earth is always evolving and changing over time. But I don’t believe in people who are closed minded and feel that only they have the correct answers. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and be free to choose how they interpret data and how they choose to change or not because of it.
Just putting this here for whatever good it does! https://heated.world/p/climate-mode...aign=post&utm_medium=email&utm_source=twitter
 

motionclone

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GreensvilleJay

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

re: this ,from the article....
The model noted what the global average temperature was at the time,
...

OK, WHAT dataset was used to calculate the 'global average temperature' ?

Was it 100 points, 1,000 points, 10,000 points ? ALL taken at the same time ? Was there equal distribution of temperature readings between city vs rural ? Were all measurements done at say 2 meters( 6 feet) of the ground, in wide open spaces, not shielded from the Sun ?

It'd be very interesting to KNOW how and where this was done.
 

dlsmith

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

looks like a biased website wrote a biased article to make hoax believers feel better about the incorrect narrative they have invested in.:)
Okay, I give up, what would it take to convince you it's not a hoax?

How much of the ice caps and how many glaciers have to melt?
How much of the permafrost in Alaska and Siberia has to melt?
How much does the sea level have to rise?
How much more does the average global temperature have to rise?
How much damage must be done and how many people must die due to historically large hurricanes and typhoons?
How many reefs have to die because of rising sea temperatures?
How many species of creatures in the oceanic food chain have to go extinct because the reefs have died?
How many people have to starve because droughts or excessive rain destroy crops?

How bad would it have to get until you would admit they were right?

All these things are already happening, we are watching it happen and mostly ignoring the signs.
The figurative canary in the coalmine is dead, and we keep on digging coal.

Since you're so distrustful of scientists, are you an anti-vaxer too?
If not, then you apparently believe what some scientists say, but not others if their predictions mean you might have to change your lifestyle.
 

D2Cat

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

The author of the "Heated..." article definitely had an agenda, or why would she name a political party if it was interested in facts?
 

sheepfarmer

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

re: this ,from the article....
The model noted what the global average temperature was at the time,
...

OK, WHAT dataset was used to calculate the 'global average temperature' ?

Was it 100 points, 1,000 points, 10,000 points ? ALL taken at the same time ? Was there equal distribution of temperature readings between city vs rural ? Were all measurements done at say 2 meters( 6 feet) of the ground, in wide open spaces, not shielded from the Sun ?

It'd be very interesting to KNOW how and where this was done.
Here is a starting point to backtrack through the literature to find the original paper (or papers) which should have the answer in the Materials and Methods section of the paper. I would or will go next to the 79 paper available online as a pdf if I can get access. (Perish the thought of doing something old fashioned like go to the library to read a paper that old. LOL)


https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...ate-models-correctly-predicted-global-warming

Both eserv's reference and this Science comment refer to a new paper in Geophysical Research Letters, and I haven't yet tried to gain access, don't know if it is free.
 

skeets

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

And everyone of these things has happened many times before, and there is archaeology proof of this, not fake not made up but facts.Once upon a time the GWN was lush and green with swamps and all kinds of critters and they prospered and spread across the lands. And then it got cold and what happened then they moved or died or adapted to the cold. Once upon a time the coal country was under water and inland seas flooded the land and creatures flourished and then died out. The earth has a wobble to its access and when it goes one way or the other the earth either gets warm or cold, this has happened since the world began to spin, but MAN was not around to cause any of this. Climate change is the natural state of the world, the earth is a very fluid thing. It aint false it aint voodoo magic, its nothing but science. do your research. Learn to think for your self and not the shills that do the bidding of the big money, And that is all sweet little Greta is a pawn. And yes I believe the real science that I can read and touch and know is real, not Cnn nor MSNBC nor the Communist Broad System nor FOX. Read, learn, think, compare all the data, give your brain a chance to be free and not a slave to the news media
 

sheepfarmer

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Ok the Hausfather full article is not free unless you log in through your university library. There is a " docx supporting data document" that my tablet won't read, so that will have to wait until later. The journal, Geophysical Research Letters has a number of open access articles that you may find interesting. See for yourself how scientists discuss the uncertainties inherent in these models.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

->Sf, the article in that link made no mention of how/where the temperatures were recorded. As for the 'models'. I've been programming computers...mainframes then minis and now micros for 5 decades and depending on how I cut code, can make the glass appear 'half full or half empty'. How the result ( 50% of liquid in a vessel') is presented will sway how the viewer 'sees' the data. If you're thisty, the glass is 1/2 empty...

here's an example....
China mines/uses 100 times MORE coal than Canada. If Canada quit using ALL coal, then we'd only reduce the CO2 by 1%, China would still be making 99% of the CO2. So WHO do you go after, the little guy or the big fish ??
 

sheepfarmer

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

->Sf, the article in that link made no mention of how/where the temperatures were recorded. As for the 'models'. I've been programming computers...mainframes then minis and now micros for 5 decades and depending on how I cut code, can make the glass appear 'half full or half empty'. How the result ( 50% of liquid in a vessel') is presented will sway how the viewer 'sees' the data. If you're thisty, the glass is 1/2 empty...

here's an example....
China mines/uses 100 times MORE coal than Canada. If Canada quit using ALL coal, then we'd only reduce the CO2 by 1%, China would still be making 99% of the CO2. So WHO do you go after, the little guy or the big fish ??
Absolutely, the Science article only gives you a link to the 79 paper and an author. You have to back track from those clues to the original papers. I have to find a password to access the 79 paper pdf. And so forth. For a non retired academic this would be easy, sorry I'm out of touch.

You guys are asking very relevant questions that have complicated answers.
 

motionclone

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Okay, I give up, what would it take to convince you it's not a hoax?
If it was real nobody would need to be "convinced" of anything. It would be obvious to everyone.

Just curious, how come people like you who believe in this stuff carry on using modern equipment and methods that pollute and contribute to this supposed man made climate change? Why arent you hoeing weeds by hand?, using oxen to plow fields? drawing water from a local stream? riding a bicycle or walking?

I mean if every little bit counts and the end is near and man needs to change, why arent the "believers" leading the way?

Because its a HOAX thats why.
 

Newlyme

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

If the oceans are truly rising....

Then why are we, (humans), building in the oceans.
Dubai is building cities, the Palm Islands, in the Persian Gulf.
Japan built Kansai International Airport in Osaka Bay.
I watched the Documentaries on these builds, very interesting, both man made islands. There’s more I am sure.

With the costs involved someone must have done their homework/research?
The break wall around the Palm Islands is 3 meters above sea level. The elevation of Kansai Airport is 5 meters.
 

sheepfarmer

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

If the oceans are truly rising....

Then why are we, (humans), building in the oceans.
Dubai is building cities, the Palm Islands, in the Persian Gulf.
Japan built Kansai International Airport in Osaka Bay.
I watched the Documentaries on these builds, very interesting, both man made islands. There’s more I am sure.

With the costs involved someone must have done their homework/research?
The break wall around the Palm Islands is 3 meters above sea level. The elevation of Kansai Airport is 5 meters.
A calculated risk? Is sea level defined in this as mean high tide? How big are the tidal excursions in that location? How much storm surge have they ever seen? If someone didn't do that could be a mistake.
 

dlsmith

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

If it was real nobody would need to be "convinced" of anything. It would be obvious to everyone.

Just curious, how come people like you who believe in this stuff carry on using modern equipment and methods that pollute and contribute to this supposed man made climate change? Why arent you hoeing weeds by hand?, using oxen to plow fields? drawing water from a local stream? riding a bicycle or walking?

I mean if every little bit counts and the end is near and man needs to change, why arent the "believers" leading the way?

Because its a HOAX thats why.
You didn't answer my question.

If it was real no one would have to be convinced?
How about the Flat Earth morons? Hell, Eratosthenes figured out the Earth was a sphere 2000 years ago. Watching a ship disappear over the horizon is a simple demonstration of a spherical Earth. Climate change is a little more complex, but most people understand the cause and effect involved.

There is no need to get draconian and go back to an pre-industrial revolution agrarian lifestyle. No one I have read is advocating that type of lifestyle changes. We can make a lot of the changes needed by using, gasp, renewable sources for power generation instead of fossil fuels. We are going to have to start recycling nearly every thing we use. There are finite resources available, and once we use them up, that's it.
Wider use of electric cars will help a lot. Air travel is one of the biggest polluters, people think nothing about hopping on a plane and flying across the country for a weekend getaway. I have only flown on an airline once in the 35 years to go to my son's wedding in AZ, but I am nowhere the norm.
There are many things in the economy that will have to change, but as it always has, technology has found ways to create other opportunities. Man is a survivor, and I think we will figure it out. If not, we'll go the way of so many other species that were unable to adapt.
Another reality that we are going to have face is that in the not so distant future there are going to be too many people on this planet to be able to feed everyone and have them live in a decent standard of living. When that happens, things are going to get ugly.

I kind of got off track, but what it boils down to is that we can do what needs to be done to mitigate climate change without seriously affecting our lifestyles, but we have to get headed in that direction now, not after all the climate change deniers have died. All the doom and gloom and hyperbole those like yourself espouse is nonsense, you're just scared of change. All the conspiracy theories are spread to scare people and draw attention those who create and culture them.

I think an interesting development in the last few years is that some of the oil companies have branched off into renewable energy technologies to hedge their bets. All the denials about climate fossil fuels contributing to climate change have mostly vanished and their shareholders have made it known that the future, if we have one, is in clean energy sources.
 
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

If the oceans are truly rising....

Then why are we, (humans), building in the oceans.
Dubai is building cities, the Palm Islands, in the Persian Gulf.
Japan built Kansai International Airport in Osaka Bay.
I watched the Documentaries on these builds, very interesting, both man made islands. There’s more I am sure.

With the costs involved someone must have done their homework/research?
The break wall around the Palm Islands is 3 meters above sea level. The elevation of Kansai Airport is 5 meters.
Think about what you just asked, why are we building on oceans.... Well maybe because the oceans are rising where available land is getting flooded, ask long time residences of florida, and Louisiana if they have any ocean flooding issues.
And FYI both your examples are poor examples to use.
Dubai is just doing it for the notoriety (show off ness) :p
Japan is doing it because they don't have large amounts of available land to use for an airport. ;)
 

dlsmith

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Japan built Kansai International Airport in Osaka Bay.
Yes, and it has been sinking ever since. So you could hardly point to that as an outstanding engineering accomplishment.
 

Newlyme

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

A calculated risk?
I have to agree with you. Take a gamble and see what happens. But with the amount of money involved I would bet that they made sure the odds were favorable. We live in a throw away society. Use it as long as you can and move on.
 

Newlyme

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Yes, and it has been sinking ever since. So you could hardly point to that as an outstanding engineering accomplishment.
25.2 million people used it in 2016. The 30th busiest airport in Asia.

The Leaning Tower of Pisa is sinking. I am sure they got their use out of it. Nothing lasts forever. ;)
 

Newlyme

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

Think about what you just asked, why are we building on oceans.... Well maybe because the oceans are rising where available land is getting flooded, ask long time residences of florida, and Louisiana if they have any ocean flooding issues.
And FYI both your examples are poor examples to use.
Dubai is just doing it for the notoriety (show off ness) :p
Japan is doing it because they don't have large amounts of available land to use for an airport. ;)
I agree with you. Though I didn’t think of them as good or poor examples, just examples. I am not judging them. I understand their reasons. There is a need for more space and that is one way of fulfilling it. It just seems silly to me to make that kind of investment of time and money to knowingly loose it all.

Disclaimer: I have no idea if the oceans are rising or not. I read it somewhere.
 

motionclone

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Re: Man Made Global COOLING?!

There is no need to get draconian and go back to an pre-industrial revolution agrarian lifestyle.
Why not? Every little bit helps and the planet is on a collision course to be uninhabitable....right Greta?

I need to see the believers looking like they believe what they spew out and go back to stone age living to show us dummies how important saving the world is.


Air travel is one of the biggest polluters, people think nothing about hopping on a plane and flying across the country for a weekend getaway.
I see climate hoax pushers flying all over the country and world to further the hoax. This hypocrazy and others is what makes MAN MADE CLIMATE CHANGE and our ability to "fix" it not very believable by smart people.
 
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