Gear Drive Transmission VS HST

[dmanlyr]

If all I used my tractor for was mowing a large (100 or more acre) field and nothing else, then I would save money and buy a geared tractor, because it will do that job just fine. But for the stuff I do with my tractor hst is the only real choice.

Even I, a slayer of all manuals have admitted that even I would consider a manual transmission for this particular purpose and have previously admitted it.

Of course it would be a used tractor if it happened to become available and I have a need to run for hours on end in one gear at one speed, buying new, I would still opt for the HST even for this type of service, unless there was a significant price disadvantage to the HST, then the manual becomes more economically viable.

Big thing to me is the ergonomics of shifting and clutching, with the resulting body damage for no real good reason when a dumb mechanical device (HST, auto, automated trans) is available to eliminate the damage. Remove that from the equation and I have no problem with a manual. New Class 8 trucks with the automated manuals are great in this respect. But they are pricey!

Much like we have things like power steering (to reduce shoulder strains) and electric starters (to eliminate broken arms from a kick back) to reduce damage to the body, of course the upside is that it makes the tractors easier to use.

And yes, ten to one if we had internet forums way back when I am sure there would be those arguing how complex electric starters make things, with batteries, wiring, switched, generators and the like! Just give me a old arm breaker handle they would say!

But each to there own.

David

 

[Benhameen]

We need a "like" button on here.

I am pro HST.

How many die hard manual guys have owned and worked a Kubota HST tractor?

 

[helomech]

We need a "like" button on here.

I am pro HST.

How many die hard manual guys have owned and worked a Kubota HST tractor?

I agree, his post made me laugh.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

We need a "like" button on here.

I am pro HST.

How many die hard manual guys have owned and worked a Kubota HST tractor?

Especially Kubota's HST+.

Anyone that has an HST that either moves on it's own or will not hold in place on it's own needs to have it looked at. Mine stops on it's own, will even hold itself in place when on an angle when loading on my tilt bed trailer.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I wish everybody would get off my damn back about your HST's. You love them all so much and good for you. I personally hate the damn things. I've given reasons why I hate them based of the things I've used in the past that are HST. I'm not making up a bunch of stupid shit about them. Its things I've experienced about HST's that I DON'T LIKE PERIOD.

So get off your damn soap box and stick your HST's up somewhere else. I don't like them and wont be buying one PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

 

[helomech]

I wish everybody would get off my damn back about your HST's. You love them all so much and good for you. I personally hate the damn things. I've given reasons why I hate them based of the things I've used in the past that are HST. I'm not making up a bunch of stupid shit about them. Its things I've experienced about HST's that I DON'T LIKE PERIOD.

So get off your damn soap box and stick your HST's up somewhere else. I don't like them and wont be buying one PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

No one is on your back. This is a thread about a new buyer interested in the different models. Not about our opinions. The op wants to know the benefits of each model. Saying I don't like them does not help the op in any way. Also saying that the one you drove is wore out does not help. To use someone elses analogy if the clutch on a geared transmission was wore out does not mean the geared transmission is junk. Now saying the hst is easier to use, can go slower, can hold its position, is faster to use, now those are facts that the op can use to make his decision. Also someone saying they can't hold down the hst pedal on long runs is also not going to help, they have cruise control for this reason.

 

[TripleR]

I wish everybody would get off my damn back about your HST's. You love them all so much and good for you. I personally hate the damn things. I've given reasons why I hate them based of the things I've used in the past that are HST. I'm not making up a bunch of stupid shit about them. Its things I've experienced about HST's that I DON'T LIKE PERIOD.

So get off your damn soap box and stick your HST's up somewhere else. I don't like them and wont be buying one PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

Eric, I agree with helomech and nothing I have said was aimed at you or anyone else who prefers a geared machine, we are just trying to help the OP in his decision making process.

Over the past 50+ years I have driven everything from an old 8N up to our present M8540 with Hydraulic Shuttle Transmission 12/12. I routinely drive both gear and HST and in my experience dealing with new operators, the HST is much easier to learn on and use. Most people do not spend ten or more hours every day running in long runs only stopping to turn around. I doubt many put more than 100 hours or so on a tractor a year and may even use one infrequently. To get good with a geared unit, it takes more time than with an HST, or so it seems to me.

I think I mentioned we like what we like and that is all that is important, but I think we do a disservice to prospective owners if we don't leave our own bias out and present them with objective information.

 

[Bluegill]

LOL, Eric...

Maybe it's just you and me who prefer the gear trans.

 

[Bluegill]

Comparing a manual trans with clutch to a hand crank engine starter from the 1920s' is just plain stupid.

 

[TripleR]

LOL, Eric...

Maybe it's just you and me who prefer the gear trans.

Oh, there are others who feel the same as you and Eric, I respect no man and his knowledge more than my brother and he just bought a new Kioti CK Shuttle Shift as his retirement tractor. He uses HST mowers, but prefers geared tractors. He still drives the Ford 600 our dad bought new in 1955, 60's model Case and 80's model Massey Ferguson we own jointly. He doesn't knock HST's, he just prefers gears.

 

[Bluegill]

Oh, there are others who feel the same as you and Eric, I respect no man and his knowledge more than my brother and he just bought a new Kioti CK Shuttle Shift as his retirement tractor. He uses HST mowers, but prefers geared tractors. He still drives the Ford 600 our dad bought new in 1955, 60's model Case and 80's model Massey Ferguson we own jointly. He doesn't knock HST's, he just prefers gears.

Triple R, you are one of the more knowledgeable and reasonable posters here.

Because of 'your' posts and experience, I'll not rule out a HST for a future tractor. Heck, I might need it when I get old!

 

[TripleR]

Triple R, you are one of the more knowledgeable and reasonable posters here.

Because of 'your' posts and experience, I'll not rule out a HST for a future tractor. Heck, I might need it when I get old!

Well I am 66, so I guess I have the old part covered.

 

[Bluegill]

Well I am 66, so I guess I have the old part covered.

Well I'm 51, but feel older. You're not 'old' yet.

 

[BotaDriver]

As I see it.....
HST = ...
- Movement controlled by awkward position of right foot.
- Less fuel efficient as operators tend to keep throttle in a higher RPM for when movement is desired (typical of almost all HST, though some are getting smart idles)
- Always-On pumps also less efficient
- Annoying whine
- 5-10% less PTO HP than GST
- Higher initial cost
- Higher replacement costs
- Slightly less reliable

GST = ...
well, a GST w/ a fully synchro'd gear box is the way to go

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I was pretty sure I stated clear reason's why I don't like an HST and the problems and troubles I've seen with them from me using them. I made it pretty clear that they do not hold up and turn to junk. Not sure if its from lack of maintenance on the forklifts or the skid steer I ran, don't know don't really care. I hop on it, I use it, it gives me the same problems REPETEDLY I don't like it and find something else to use.

The info I gave about the HST's from the uses I've found is more then enough information for a new comer to make a decision on gear versus HST.

 

[dmanlyr]

Comparing a manual trans with clutch to a hand crank engine starter from the 1920s' is just plain stupid.

Umm, ya ok so now you want to make this personal?

WOW

Ok, I compared a manual to a couple of things to point out that things do change, and that there are always going to be holdouts or people who prefer something obsolete.... but not due to any facts or other evidence, but from a personal preference. And from a personal preference standpoint, that is fine, but from not from a engineering standpoint, or failure standpoint that is.

You still did not address the ergonomic damage that clutching and shifting does to the human body, and that is one big reason I mention a hand cranked engine. BOTH have the potential do cause damage to joints, bones that simply does not need to happen, especially when there are reasonably priced reliable machines to eliminate this damage.

Perhaps at this point I should take the high road, but does your failure to understand change, mean that your ignorant, or just plain stupid?

So take what I have to say as disrespect - MODS, please tell Bluegill to keep his yap shut on a personal level and I will as well. But for now, I will not stand by and take this garbage from anyone.

You sir, do owe me a apology.

David

 

[dmanlyr]

I wish everybody would get off my damn back about your HST's. You love them all so much and good for you. I personally hate the damn things. I've given reasons why I hate them based of the things I've used in the past that are HST. I'm not making up a bunch of stupid shit about them. Its things I've experienced about HST's that I DON'T LIKE PERIOD.

So get off your damn soap box and stick your HST's up somewhere else. I don't like them and wont be buying one PERIOD.

END OF STORY.

Eric, I am not on your back one bit. You like manuals and so be it. That is what works best for, and where you at in your life.

What I did answer was the OP's question on HST, verses Manual. I also addressed some various posts regarding things attributed to HST's that simply are not true of a properly maintained and used HST.

Again, NOTHING was meant to offend you in anyway. Support your manual transmissions and I will support my HST's.

Funny thing is, 22 to 25 years ago I would have been on your side in this debate. I have learned though, as you will as well that manuals are just too hard on the body, and even if HST's did fail more often that manuals, which they do not, that failure rate would be more than offset by NOT damaging your body unnecessarily.

David

 

[WFM]

Wow...can you imagine if someone asked Ford or Chevy ???Call in the national guard....

 

[TripleR]

Wow...can you imagine if someone asked Ford or Chevy ???Call in the national guard....

Pretty predictable and I have yet to see one that did not get personal and end up with insults.

Oh and the answer to Ford v Chevy, the answer is Toyota.

 

[dmanlyr]

Wow...can you imagine if someone asked Ford or Chevy ???Call in the national guard....

Another can of worms for sure. It seems that people have a real hard time understanding the difference between a personal opinion and facts.

But then I drive, a couple for Fords, a Chevrolet and even a Oldsmobile. I have pretty much owned every make. Everyone was bought for a purpose, to do a job or full fill a needed function.

Unfortunately a few people on the board, when they feel they are boxed in by the facts, or see read something that they just do not like strike out personally. Perhaps I should have taken the high road with Bluegill, but this is the second time on this board that I have been totally disrespected and this time, I am not taking it.

David