Re-Turboing the old perkins t6 354.4..... I think

[Shadow_storm56]

Years ago we got a perkins 3544 that we put a pump on, it works good but if you run it too hard the stack can start to glow which I caught before it went too far. Also burns a bit extra fuel... not much just enough to be detected by a tech.

So one day I looked up the seriel number... TW33168U675270J

First 2 numbers stand for "Turbo" and "water cooled" plus the tag said T6.....

So this engine is supposed to have a turbo, so now I'm trying to find a kit to do it. I do see 2 plugs on that side one that I'm 95% sure is low enough for oil return and the other is an oil out port.

Also usually the turbo is a 4 bolt and this exhaust is 3 bolt. I see plugs for oil pressure and a small one for oil return down low.

It's very strange but now I'm trying to find a good turbo to match it to get the full power and efficiency. I'm guessing this wouldn't need a waste gate or anything odd like that

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Photos

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Oh btw if you wonder about the Silicone...... we bought this used and somone had broke off and re welded the dip stick..... making the tube substantially longer. Oil was coming from weird places from the overfill. I found this out from putting a camera inside just to see the inside..... and saw the oil scrape mark from the stick being in further and then looked it up. Went oh crap

 

[hedgerow]

You shouldn't have any problem finding the parts to put a turbo on your 354 Perkins. There were a ton of White model 105 tractors with the 354 turbo and Massey combines model 750 and some of the 850 models had the 354 turbo in them. Face book and Craig's list should find many engines with turbos. I combine many acres of crops with a 354 Perkins engine with a turbo. At one time I had a 750 combine with the 354 turbo and a 750 with a 372 non turbo and the turbo model would go off and hide from the non turbo model.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

You shouldn't have any problem finding the parts to put a turbo on your 354 Perkins. There were a ton of White model 105 tractors with the 354 turbo and Massey combines model 750 and some of the 850 models had the 354 turbo in them. Face book and Craig's list should find many engines with turbos. I combine many acres of crops with a 354 Perkins engine with a turbo. At one time I had a 750 combine with the 354 turbo and a 750 with a 372 non turbo and the turbo model would go off and hide from the non turbo model.

Ironically we have a White 105 as well. It appears to use a slightly different block design and different head, also different turbo position than the 354s I usually see. My biggest issue is the compatible turbo is a twin scroll that splits the exhaust into 2 streams until through the turbo. My exhaust is a 3 bolt single port. I could potentially just make an adapter, a twin scroll is great for turbo lag but that dosen't matter on a water pump lol.

Why would someone convert it to a non turbo version?.

 

[hedgerow]

Lots of things could have happen since that motor was new. Maybe it never had a turbo they just used the block they had. Maybe it spun a main bearing on the original block and someone used a turbo block to get it back up and running. Have seen a lot of put together things in my life time. The 354 engines I put turbos on were in Massey combines and 1850 Oliver tractors. We just used the intake, exhaust manifold and turbo off of one that had a turbo from the factory. Back in the day MW sold kits for a lot of tractors to add turbos. I did a lot 806 IH and JD 4010 and 4020's tractors.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Lots of things could have happen since that motor was new. Maybe it never had a turbo they just used the block they had. Maybe it spun a main bearing on the original block and someone used a turbo block to get it back up and running. Have seen a lot of put together things in my life time. The 354 engines I put turbos on were in Massey combines and 1850 Oliver tractors. We just used the intake, exhaust manifold and turbo off of one that had a turbo from the factory. Back in the day MW sold kits for a lot of tractors to add turbos. I did a lot 806 IH and JD 4010 and 4020's tractors.

There are specific parts to make the turbo fit exactly as intended. Thoes are hard to get but a few adapter plates and some patience will have it back to the turbo configuration again. It is possible they had a turbo explode and just popped a manifold they had on it, plug the holes and moved on.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

I did find the correct turbo, anyone know what size the intake side hose and the charge air side hose usually is on this engine usually. Trying to configure everything correctly so I don't have to keep waiting on orders

 

[lugbolt]

like my tractor. MF 1140. Guy I got it from was a turbo junkie, everything he owned was turbocharged or twin or triple turbocharged in one case. So he found out that a 1145 is the exact same engine but turbocharged, so he bought a used 1145 engine and swapped it onto the 1140 tractor. Lot of work for 6 or 7hp. But that's not enough. 1145's did not have an intercooler so he found one on a volkswagen of some sort and rigged up some intercooler pipes, and a fan on the back side of the IC. So maybe 8hp increase. Still a lot of work for just that. I hate the tractor but not enough to get rid of it, at least not until it's totally broken. Problem is, the next owner will have to try to make heads of tails of it because the label on the side of the valve cover is for the 1140 which is naturally aspirated. E3AD1 engine I think it is.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

like my tractor. MF 1140. Guy I got it from was a turbo junkie, everything he owned was turbocharged or twin or triple turbocharged in one case. So he found out that a 1145 is the exact same engine but turbocharged, so he bought a used 1145 engine and swapped it onto the 1140 tractor. Lot of work for 6 or 7hp. But that's not enough. 1145's did not have an intercooler so he found one on a volkswagen of some sort and rigged up some intercooler pipes, and a fan on the back side of the IC. So maybe 8hp increase. Still a lot of work for just that. I hate the tractor but not enough to get rid of it, at least not until it's totally broken. Problem is, the next owner will have to try to make heads of tails of it because the label on the side of the valve cover is for the 1140 which is naturally aspirated. E3AD1 engine I think it is.

So they will have an engine with a turbo that shouldn't and mine should and dosen't. It's great at confusing people lol, in the case of the 6344 it makes a pretty large difference in HP. Also fuel efficiency..... and since mines still tuned for a turbo the exhaust stack glowing at high load would be nice to remedy too.

I don't think I'll go as far as an intercooler... maybe waste gate

 

[lugbolt]

Mine is the 1140 tractor but with 1145 engine. The 1145 was originally turbocharged and still is, but the 1140 and 1145 are the same identical tractor. IT is identical in every way to the 1140 engine, but turbocharged. And the pump timing is a little different but that is it. Nonetheless somebody's fixing to get confused when that day comes. But it does come with a spare engine (disassembled) so maybe they won't gripe too much. Problem is I don't know if the spare engine is a 1140 or 1145, no manifold on it. Probably the old 1140 engine. Not that I care. New owner can figure it all out.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Mine is the 1140 tractor but with 1145 engine. The 1145 was originally turbocharged and still is, but the 1140 and 1145 are the same identical tractor. IT is identical in every way to the 1140 engine, but turbocharged. And the pump timing is a little different but that is it. Nonetheless somebody's fixing to get confused when that day comes. But it does come with a spare engine (disassembled) so maybe they won't gripe too much. Problem is I don't know if the spare engine is a 1140 or 1145, no manifold on it. Probably the old 1140 engine. Not that I care. New owner can figure it all out.

My head hurts now . I believe the T6 354.4 and the 6 354.4 are also identical except a turbo and different fuel pump tuning. Mine may have been made from multiple engines who knows... the block is definitely the T6 354.4 and likely the pistons and all that. Coulda used a different head idk, owell it'll be a T6 354.4 once again.... weird looking because getting all the correct elbows and the correct exhaust manifold is nearly impossible so it'll look more like a hotrod but that's cool

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Can anyone confirm the differences? If any to the internals between the 2 versions. I wouldn't expect them being much different especially in that age when it was built

 

[hedgerow]

Can anyone confirm the differences? If any to the internals between the 2 versions. I wouldn't expect them being much different especially in that age when it was built

Some of the 354 engines that were factory turbo engines had oil spray cooling nozzles on the block cooling the under side of the piston. If you do put a turbo on make sure you run a exhaust temp gauge so you don't melt the engine down. That 354 engine was built for many a years for lots of different equipment.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Some of the 354 engines that were factory turbo engines had oil spray cooling nozzles on the block cooling the under side of the piston. If you do put a turbo on make sure you run a exhaust temp gauge so you don't melt the engine down. That 354 engine was built for many a years for lots of different equipment.

It's more for efficiency and a bit of looking cool on thoes annoying frost nights than max power increase. The load on it stays the same also I always watch exhaust temps on high load ever since I made the exhaust glow one night. I won't be putting it on the dyno haha.

My one friend was like are you gunna wind er right out and see how much power you gained? No I don't want to blow er. What would be a safe max temperature right near the exhaust ports? Internet says 900-1000c but that seems insane to me...... like yea no.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Some of the 354 engines that were factory turbo engines had oil spray cooling nozzles on the block cooling the under side of the piston. If you do put a turbo on make sure you run a exhaust temp gauge so you don't melt the engine down. That 354 engine was built for many a years for lots of different equipment.

Side note the exhust is 2 inch but rather than a large muffler and large stack they kept it small at 2 inch (outlet tips ID is 1.75 by the flapper) so I'm going to change as much as I can to 3 inch which apparently even if it still starts small and goes big later on it can drastically improve the flow. Kinda pulls it you could say. If I was a real good fabricator I'd go 3 right back to the turbo.

 

[lugbolt]

the larger the tubing post turbo the faster the turbocharger responds to load changes. You really can't go too big. Downside is cost and noise. Larger tubing-noisier.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

the larger the tubing post turbo the faster the turbocharger responds to load changes. You really can't go too big. Downside is cost and noise. Larger tubing-noisier.

I'm not going very big just the same as the other perkins

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Project went pretty well, I added alot of guages as I will never know 100% if it has extra piston oil jets or not so gotta be careful. It did run before with a glowing exhaust and survived so it does good at keeping pistons cool somehow. I would prefer not to have anything glow again.... it was accidental as even naturally aspirated the thing just goes harder.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

kinda curious, if it was supposed to have had a turbo (TW..) where did the original one go ?
hmm, would there be 'special/better' internal parts for the turbo version

just curious......