still looking...

[pigdoc]

country hick's posting motivated me to update the group.

I decided, months ago, that I needed a Real Tractor for driveway grading (half-mile of asphalt millings on steep slopes), snow removal, and some light skidding in the woods (I have 12 acres of mature woods).

4WD and FEL a necessity.
Not too much plastic stuff to break.
Don't want a cab.
Want a 4-cylinder diesel and 40+hp, but read on.

the Wolfman has convinced me that I need to focus on the -50 series.

Main reason I'm focusing on that series is that they had Direct Injection engines. And, I want to turbo the engine, mainly for the power and efficiency gains. It is not sensible to turbo an engine that is not DI. I have ready access to a lot of diesel hot-rodding expertise and shop space.

Yes, I've kept up, with great interest on a couple of L2501 turbo-charging projects. But, I want a 4-cylinder. And, I want to spend about $10,000 less than that.

So, the search has narrowed to L3450, L3650, or L4350.
These were all built in the early 1990s.

The L4350 has a V2203-DI engine, the other two have V1902-DI engines.
L3450s and L3650s are not too hard to find (5-10 each of these models are sold at online auctions per year in the US), but the L4350 doesn't come up for sale very often (3 or 4 per year). I should have bought BOTH those L3650s that sold in Georgia in February....That bare one was NICE.

Typical selling prices for a decent machine with <2000 hours on it have lately been in the $7000-12000 range. But, I have noticed that, in the last year, prices on used tractors have jumped 30-50%.

-Paul

 

[Jchonline]

As long as you are willing to wait you can find anything! Best of luck and hope you get a low hour, garage/barn kept machine!

 

[country_hick]

There is one thing to think about. Kubota is not making all the parts that may be needed for the older (70's and 80's) tractors. How much longer before the same is true for the 90's tractors?

Parts availability has a lot to do with the original popularity of a given tractor. So many 1940's farmall, 2 cylinder John Deer, and Ford 9n tractors were made that most parts are still available for them today.

The Dynahoe was a great and LARGE (expensive) tractor with a low sales volume. The manufacturer stopped making them and their parts availability is now questionable at best.

You are looking at getting an over 30 year old tractor that probably did not sell in large numbers when they were new. Parts will be harder and harder to get as the tractor gets even older. I might not mind buying a 1500 hour 40 year old tractor when parts are readily available but not when its parts availability is questionable.

i am wondering if I should get a L2501 just because the series has lasted so long with good sales numbers. Parts should be available for a long long time. A kubota dealer told me the replacement 2502 is the same mechanically as the 2501 it is replacing.

P.S. I seldom get blamed for someone else starting a thread like this (not that I mind at all).

 

[jimh406]

I'm not sure why you want a 4 cylinder or 40 hp. Can you explain your reasoning?

A L2501 will do what you've described.

 

[PaulL]

I'm not sure why you want a 4 cylinder or 40 hp. Can you explain your reasoning?

A L2501 will do what you've described.

Because he's a diesel hot rodder. A 40hp four cylinder, plus a turbo and a good bit of boost, will push about 65-70hp. He'll be able to spin all four wheels on any surface, and run the largest wood chipper you've ever seen.

But seriously, nothing wrong with having a hobby, and nothing wrong with pushing a lot of power.

If it were me, I'd probably start with a tractor that's under powered (i.e. the 2501) then do the hot rodding, and end up with something that's still within sensible limits for the chassis/machine size.

 

[Rdrcr]

i am wondering if I should get a L2501 just because the series has lasted so long with good sales numbers. Parts should be available for a long long time. A kubota dealer told me the replacement 2502 is the same mechanically as the 2501 it is replacing.

That’s my understanding on the L2502 as well.
So, should I get a gear-drive L2502 or another HST?

Mike

 

[PaulL]

That’s my understanding on the L2502 as well.
So, should I get a gear-drive L2502 or another HST?

Mike

For me, a gear drive L2501, or an HST L2502. That's because to me the main upgrade is the brake pedals on the left, and that only applies to the HST version. The gear drive doesn't have (nor need) that change, save some $$$ and get the L2501.

I'd personally always get an HST. But you're back in the HST vs gear discussion. And the answer is it both depends on what usage you're making of it, and depends on your personal preference. If you're boosting it so you can do tractor pulling, then probably gear drive. If you're boosting it to do loader work (but why?) then HST is better. I can certainly see that a tractor pushing substantially more power may be better with gear drive - more durable. Equally, if you're only pushing power up to 39hp or thereabouts, the L3902 has the same HST as the L2502, so you're still within it's design limits.

 

[pigdoc]

Thanks for the replies.

Silly reasoning for wanting a 4-cylinder: I just don't like 3-cylinders. Call me a bigot.

As for parts availability, not only have I been doing research on factory equipment, I've been pretending I'm about to rebuild the motor. Yup, a fair bit of availability for those motors (V1902, V2203) in the aftermarket, and stocked overseas, either NOS, good used, or rebuilt. I HATE being dependent on the manufacturer for parts.

The other thing to realize is that for stuff like seals and bearings, many manufacturers, including Kubota, used "stock" pieces when they could. Good example is mower deck shaft bearings. For RC-54 decks (and the like), they are a stock "6205" ball bearing. "Stock" means that virtually every bearing or seal manufacturer makes that part.

Ever hear of outfits like "Bearing, Belt, and Chain"? You can go visit them with your specs (thickness, lip design, OD, ID) and they'll find you the stock seal to fit that 'hole', or something very close. Or, if you have the patience (like I do), you can research most of this yourself, online. That's the primary reason I thank God for the internet.

Now, there are some bearings (for example) that are considered "proprietary". That is, they are only available through the manufacturer that specified them, and aftermarket distributors are not allowed to sell those to the general public. To wit: there is a ball shaft bearing in the early Wheel Horse Rideaway Jr tractor transmissions (1957-1963) that was manufactured only by Nice Bearings, in Philadelphia, which is no longer in business. That bearing (7 used in the transmission) was proprietary, so the only place you could get them was Wheel Horse. The work around is to find something close (within say, 0.005", and do some grinding or machining to make them fit). It's been so long ago that I messed with that sh_t that I forget what the work around was for that Wheel Horse wedgie...

So, I'm not particularly afraid of rebuilding a 40-year old machine. My daily driver is a 45-year old truck (1977 Dodge M880 5/4 ton), with a 34-year old engine (12-valve Cummins), and a 31-year old transmission (New Process RH47 with lockup and OD, a truly rare beast), and New Process 205 (gear-driven) transfer case. No problem. We just dropped a "new" motor in 2 weeks ago. Rollin' coal again. <spit> Total cost for the rebuilt motor, including all labor, radiator, new driveshaft, and all all the associated parts? $4500. My son did most of the labor, so I called that payment a "gift", to keep the tax man wondering.

I blew the rear axle (Dana 60 Powr-Lok 3.54) in that truck last year, because I ignored a bad bearing. Axle housing was ruined. One axle shaft melted in half. I recalled that a particular nearby junkyard in my more youthful past had a number of potential donor trucks. Found a donor - a 1967 Dodge D250 (Dana 60 open 4.10). Grabbed that axle ($100), and swapped my (custom disc) brakes onto it. Bolt-in swap. Cool thing was that the pinion bearing shim pack in the donor axle was EXACTLY the same as the ruined axle. So, I just slammed my 3.54 gears in, checked the gear mesh (perfect, of course), and put it on the road, the next day. The moral: Sometimes driving old sh_t is MUCH easier than new. And, cheaper. I'm ALL about cheaper...

Some of us here are gentleman farmers. I'm more of a down-in-the-dirt type.

-Paul

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That’s my understanding on the L2502 as well.
So, should I get a gear-drive L2502 or another HST?

Mike

HST!

 

[cthomas]

Is the HST able to handle a boosted engine? Like possibly my LX2610? Improved top speed or just able to climb hills in high?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

grading, snow, skidding are all low speed operations and HST will be better cause NO 'gear' tractor has the RIGHT speed on the stick. I had a 12 speed Willys pickup and no combination of 3 sticks gave me the perfect ratio.....

Buy 2 tractors..
one, stock, to DO the work you need done,
the 2nd your 'toy' turbo tractor to play with.

 

[country_hick]

As for parts availability, not only have I been doing research on factory equipment, I've been pretending I'm about to rebuild the motor.

You will almost certainly be able to get the parts needed to rebuild the motor and replace a clutch and pressure plate. Will a flywheel be available if needed? What about getting transmission and axle parts? Are the hydraulics replaceable? Are the steering column and box replaceable? I would expect all tie rod and ball joint type parts to be available. A buddy of mine broke a front axle housing and can not get the casting for his tractor. Every parts tractor he found is missing the same part. A (David Brown???) tractor broke a relatively minor part and was junked because that part could not be sourced to fix the tractor.

Seals, bearings, and standard hardware items almost always can be sourced easily. Aftermarket seats can be retrofitted to any old tractor with some work. I could install an air ride seat on a Farmall H or a John Deere A if I wanted to.

When you need an axle shaft, a gear, an input shaft or other transmission shafts, or some casting that is broken or worn will it be available when you need that replacement part?