Looking for the right tool

[l3lumarlin]

My family just closed on 60 acres in Berkshire County, MA. It is all former cattle pasture that has overgrown with trees ( about 40-50 year old trees). I'm trying to figure out the right size tractor for the job. I'm planning to clear at least 15-20 acres of trees, pull/grind the stumps, dig out a few small ponds, home foundation, septic, and put in a 1500 ft driveway and then be able to clear the snow from that driveway. I did some homework and determined what size I think I need but I'd like to hear some opinions before I proceed with spending this amount of money.

 

[Yooper]

Real easy. The biggest tractor you can afford. Your list is pointing to an M size tractor because you’re going to need hp to pull and grind stumps and it will be a big plus for the backhoe work. You can make a smaller one work such as an L, but it will take you longer. Like I say, you can dig a basement with a shovel if you have the time.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

My family just closed on 60 acres in Berkshire County, MA. It is all former cattle pasture that has overgrown with trees ( about 40-50 year old trees). I'm trying to figure out the right size tractor for the job. I'm planning to clear at least 15-20 acres of trees, pull/grind the stumps, dig out a few small ponds, home foundation, septic, and put in a 1500 ft driveway and then be able to clear the snow from that driveway. I did some homework and determined what size I think I need but I'd like to hear some opinions before I proceed with spending this amount of money.

Good day. Congratulations on the farm and project.

Does the timeline to complete and/or the order of those jobs make a difference? I can’t really say I understand what you it have planned or the urgency, seems like an excavator / track hoe might jump start some the work…I understood you asked about tractor size. Are the trees of any timbersble value? What planning to do with them? Any potential to trade the lumber value to have portion of the work done? Are you think for immediate / initial tasks or over longer period of property ownership?

I guess then after the place is set up that way you want, the work and maintenance maybe suggest something different than what is needed to get it to that point, IMO. I sort of seeing two things/steps…setting property up and the. Second working / maintaining it…. Im not sure that the first and second step need the same machine.

if planning to do all with tractor, then a big TLB…depending on your time frame expectations. Eventually I’d think would not be hard to image an M size to take care of 60acre acre farm….but I am not sure just one machine will be all you end up with…depends on how you plan to maintain it. Just my thoughts.

 

[l3lumarlin]

Real easy. The biggest tractor you can afford. Your list is pointing to an M size tractor because you’re going to need hp to pull and grind stumps and it will be a big plus for the backhoe work. You can make a smaller one work such as an L, but it will take you longer. Like I say, you can dig a basement with a shovel if you have the time.

I originally was thinking an MX, but then the local dealer showed me the L6060 and it seemed to be on the same level of power as an MX but with a few more premium features. I also liked the idea of the 6060 having the mid PTO for a front snow blower.

 

[l3lumarlin]

Good day. Congratulations on the farm and project.

Does the timeline to complete and/or the order of those jobs make a difference? I can’t really say I understand what you it have planned or the urgency, seems like an excavator / track hoe might jump start some the work…I understood you asked about tractor size. Are the trees of any timbersble value? What planning to do with them? Any potential to trade the lumber value to have portion of the work done? Are you think for immediate / initial tasks or over longer period of property ownership?

I guess then after the place is set up that way you want, the work and maintenance maybe suggest something different than what is needed to get it to that point, IMO. I sort of seeing two things/steps…setting property up and the. Second working / maintaining it…. Im not sure that the first and second step need the same machine.

if planning to do all with tractor, then a big TLB…depending on your time frame expectations. Eventually I’d think would not be hard to image an M size to take care of 60acre acre farm….but I am not sure just one machine will be all you end up with…depends on how you plan to maintain it. Just my thoughts.

My timeline is pretty open. We live about an hour away from the property now and would like to be living out there full time in a little over a decade. Some timber value is there, they won't clear stumps though. There's several saw mills in the area I can talk to about the timber and there's a few 200 ft pines that I'd even consider saving the timber for some nice feature beams in the house. For now I'm going to need once machine I can store in a more temporary structure until I can choose a location to put the pole barn. Would a L6060 be on par with the M power wise? I liked the mid PTO feature for a snow blower.

As for other equipment... my budget as of now is ~$3-4m for everything( machinery, house, barn, stable, infrastructure) so if I need to add some more to the fleet once the pole barn is up then that's possible. I just need something to start getting the project moving in the proper direction.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

My timeline is pretty open. We live about an hour away from the property now and would like to be living out there full time in a little over a decade. Some timber value is there, they won't clear stumps though. There's several saw mills in the area I can talk to about the timber and there's a few 200 ft pines that I'd even consider saving the timber for some nice feature beams in the house. For now I'm going to need once machine I can store in a more temporary structure until I can choose a location to put the pole barn. Would a L6060 be on par with the M power wise? I liked the mid PTO feature for a snow blower.

As for other equipment... my budget as of now is ~$3-4m for everything( machinery, house, barn, stable, infrastructure) so if I need to add some more to the fleet once the pole barn is up then that's possible. I just need something to start getting the project moving in the proper direction.

Regarding you question on M vs L…it depends, on a dyno the numbers are the numbers…in terms of doing work the L does not have same weight / transmission…the L will not have the weight traction / pull or lift capability of an M. they do different things and both have there advantages IMO, so depending on the work you want done power may not be the only factor. (Weight/stance/transmission/hyrdraulics)

Your property and your project is your dream…how you do is up to you. I can say for me I’d rather have an M than an MX…the MX is great, but I went with HST for ease of use in/around buildings, loader work and for my spousal unit to use…safer. That’s a choice I made to prioritize the transmission against my tasks and who/how I want to be able to do them..and I happy about it. I think it could be helpful to consider the tasks you have now and in future and consider how you will really do the work and the attachments you may want to run….and I think when you do that think about what are the ideal machines as well as ones you can live with. If you take snow blowing…if you want front mount, you can use an L or smalller or a compact loader…or a rear snow blower in anything from a BX and up…. There are so many choices that I would sort of stack em up (machines needed vs tasked) and see what all you need before choosing. Plan to have livestock? Haul water? Move bails? Logging? Haying? Pulling a plow or anything else? Snow?

I think it will be hard to find a single machine for current / future tasks.

 

[Mowbizz]

3-4 million budget?? Geeze man… buy one of each tractor, excavator and tracked skid steer! Sell what you have no use for when finished…

 

[jyoutz]

I originally was thinking an MX, but then the local dealer showed me the L6060 and it seemed to be on the same level of power as an MX but with a few more premium features. I also liked the idea of the 6060 having the mid PTO for a front snow blower.

I’m admittedly biased, but you will notice substantial differences in overall stability and ride with the larger front wheels on the MX over the large L. The MX is also a bit more robust machine overall. It is true that there’s no mid pto option on the MX. But I do agree with others that a M machine might be the best option for your 60 acres. If you are set on HST, then the MX is the largest machine available with that.

 

[B737]

skid loader and or excavator

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Maybe sell the tress 'standing', then use that money to rent BIG excavator ,to remove the stumps ?
If that deal doesn't fly... buy a sawmill and mill all of them yourself.

 

[RCW]

Are the trees of any timbersble value? What planning to do with them? Any potential to trade the lumber value to have portion of the work done? Are you think for immediate / initial tasks or over longer period of property ownership?

Maybe sell the tress 'standing', then use that money to rent BIG excavator ,to remove the stumps ?
If that deal doesn't fly... buy a sawmill and mill all of them yourself.

I'm heading in rc51 and Jay's directions too. Have someone else get the stuff out, then start from there.

"At least" 15-20 acres is a sizable clearcut in the northeast, probably more-so in MA.

A regenerated pasture could have some sought-after hardwood species at 40-50 years, although hardwood timber markets are depressed now. Softwood market seems to be robust, at least in my part of NYS.

But for the "BIG" Eastern White Pines, can you generally characterize the 15-20 acre stand as far as species, height, and DBH (diameter breast height...4.5' up)?

Also "form" of the trees - - are they predominately short and bushy, or tall and pole-like?

These are part of my own woods and only a few acres. First photo is a little older than yours, but would be marketable. Second much younger, but tree form and size would make Sale difficult.

 

[JimmyJazz]

My family just closed on 60 acres in Berkshire County, MA. It is all former cattle pasture that has overgrown with trees ( about 40-50 year old trees). I'm trying to figure out the right size tractor for the job. I'm planning to clear at least 15-20 acres of trees, pull/grind the stumps, dig out a few small ponds, home foundation, septic, and put in a 1500 ft driveway and then be able to clear the snow from that driveway. I did some homework and determined what size I think I need but I'd like to hear some opinions before I proceed with spending this amount of money.

Find a guy with a bulldozer. Thats what I would do. Good luck.

 

[woodman55]

What kept me from going to a M, was the two speed power shift/hst in the grand L. Until you have used it, you don't know what your missing. Just like a/c, you don't think you need it, until you have been in a car with it.

 

[GeoHorn]

Rent or Lease a bulldozer.

 

[fried1765]

My family just closed on 60 acres in Berkshire County, MA. It is all former cattle pasture that has overgrown with trees ( about 40-50 year old trees). I'm trying to figure out the right size tractor for the job. I'm planning to clear at least 15-20 acres of trees, pull/grind the stumps, dig out a few small ponds, home foundation, septic, and put in a 1500 ft driveway and then be able to clear the snow from that driveway. I did some homework and determined what size I think I need but I'd like to hear some opinions before I proceed with spending this amount of money.

If Kubota, an M62 TLB.
Hire foundation hole dig, small ponds, and rough shaping of driveway.

 

[PaulL]

I'd be looking at what machine you need longer term, and maybe buying that. Do what it can do during the setup, and either rent or hire out what it can't do. Otherwise you'll need to buy a too big machine (or wrong machine), then sell/rebuy. Not that it matters that much, tractors don't lose much value.

For some of your setup work a tractor isn't really the right machine. Do you have appetite to buy an older (but big) machine - bulldozer or excavator - until some of the work is done, then sell it?

Sounds like you want a cab tractor? If so, Grand L or M. MX I think doesn't have a factory cab, or at least not a good one? If you want a front snow blower, then Grand L is the right machine. If that's not essential (and you can move snow with a bucket, with a plow truck, with a rear blade, or with a rear blower) then M is an option.

In terms of your jobs:

• Cutting down trees. If someone will cut them and take away the timber, that's great. Otherwise, the actual cutting is a chainsaw, the question is what you're doing once it's cut. If it's a massive pile of firewood, then you need a splitter. Make sure you get rear remotes to run one. If you're trying to get lumber out of it, then you need a sawmill or a guy with a sawmill (probably the latter, they're not super easy to use I gather).
• Cleaning up after cutting down trees. Lots of branches and trash. A grapple is essential, therefore also a third function. Assume you'll make a huge burn pile and just burn it, anything else is too much work
• Stumps need good thought. What are you really doing with them? Grinding them means you're leaving most of it in the ground, they'll rot over time and the ground will subside, and it'll annoy you. You'll be constantly filling/levelling, or driving over holes and mounds. I think it's a better investment to take them out. A TLB is not really the tool for that job - it'll do it in a month of Sundays (as in, 30 Sundays, so half a year or more of work every Sunday). A big excavator will do it in a couple days. But then what - now you have holes all over your property, and a big pile of stumps to burn? A big bulldozer will flatten that again, but your topsoil will all no longer be on top.....and you don't want to bring in soil for 20 acres. Make sure you know the plan for what you're doing with the stumps, I doubt your tractor is really doing it
• Digging ponds can be done (slowly) with a TLB. Putting in a driveway can be done slowly with a bucket. Home foundations can be dug with a TLB. Septic can be installed with a TLB. To be honest, you're spending good money building a nice house, you're not living on the bones of your ass. A professional will do all those jobs way better than you ever will, and the guy plus his machine will cost less than your time/fuel/wear and tear. And the foundations will be straight and level, the driveway will have nice drainage, crowning and fall lines that you'll be pleased with but couldn't do yourself (or wouldn't even know to do), the septic will last a lifetime instead of giving you constant problems because you got something not quite right. I love doing jobs myself, but I'd personally limit myself to installing the pole barns and the like that I'm the only one who uses, and leave the house, septic and driveway (i.e. the bits my spouse uses) to professionals.
• If that's what you're doing, then your tractor is really a farm tractor plus snowblower. Grand-L, perhaps with a backhoe for smaller jobs, would be a great machine for that. Get the snowblower, some rear remotes so you can run a wood splitter and top+tilt for driveway maintenance, 3rd function and a grapple. Get the factory cab. Get a land plane for driveway maintenance. Make the yard bit of your house a couple of acres, and use your tractor to make it very level and lay a beautiful lawn with curves that the tractor can run around. Get a RFM and mow it fast. Get a rotary cutter for keeping the fields down. You'll be super happy.

 

[jyoutz]

I'd be looking at what machine you need longer term, and maybe buying that. Do what it can do during the setup, and either rent or hire out what it can't do. Otherwise you'll need to buy a too big machine (or wrong machine), then sell/rebuy. Not that it matters that much, tractors don't lose much value.

For some of your setup work a tractor isn't really the right machine. Do you have appetite to buy an older (but big) machine - bulldozer or excavator - until some of the work is done, then sell it?

Sounds like you want a cab tractor? If so, Grand L or M. MX I think doesn't have a factory cab, or at least not a good one? If you want a front snow blower, then Grand L is the right machine. If that's not essential (and you can move snow with a bucket, with a plow truck, with a rear blade, or with a rear blower) then M is an option.

In terms of your jobs:

• Cutting down trees. If someone will cut them and take away the timber, that's great. Otherwise, the actual cutting is a chainsaw, the question is what you're doing once it's cut. If it's a massive pile of firewood, then you need a splitter. Make sure you get rear remotes to run one. If you're trying to get lumber out of it, then you need a sawmill or a guy with a sawmill (probably the latter, they're not super easy to use I gather).
• Cleaning up after cutting down trees. Lots of branches and trash. A grapple is essential, therefore also a third function. Assume you'll make a huge burn pile and just burn it, anything else is too much work
• Stumps need good thought. What are you really doing with them? Grinding them means you're leaving most of it in the ground, they'll rot over time and the ground will subside, and it'll annoy you. You'll be constantly filling/levelling, or driving over holes and mounds. I think it's a better investment to take them out. A TLB is not really the tool for that job - it'll do it in a month of Sundays (as in, 30 Sundays, so half a year or more of work every Sunday). A big excavator will do it in a couple days. But then what - now you have holes all over your property, and a big pile of stumps to burn? A big bulldozer will flatten that again, but your topsoil will all no longer be on top.....and you don't want to bring in soil for 20 acres. Make sure you know the plan for what you're doing with the stumps, I doubt your tractor is really doing it
• Digging ponds can be done (slowly) with a TLB. Putting in a driveway can be done slowly with a bucket. Home foundations can be dug with a TLB. Septic can be installed with a TLB. To be honest, you're spending good money building a nice house, you're not living on the bones of your ass. A professional will do all those jobs way better than you ever will, and the guy plus his machine will cost less than your time/fuel/wear and tear. And the foundations will be straight and level, the driveway will have nice drainage, crowning and fall lines that you'll be pleased with but couldn't do yourself (or wouldn't even know to do), the septic will last a lifetime instead of giving you constant problems because you got something not quite right. I love doing jobs myself, but I'd personally limit myself to installing the pole barns and the like that I'm the only one who uses, and leave the house, septic and driveway (i.e. the bits my spouse uses) to professionals.
• If that's what you're doing, then your tractor is really a farm tractor plus snowblower. Grand-L, perhaps with a backhoe for smaller jobs, would be a great machine for that. Get the snowblower, some rear remotes so you can run a wood splitter and top+tilt for driveway maintenance, 3rd function and a grapple. Get the factory cab. Get a land plane for driveway maintenance. Make the yard bit of your house a couple of acres, and use your tractor to make it very level and lay a beautiful lawn with curves that the tractor can run around. Get a RFM and mow it fast. Get a rotary cutter for keeping the fields down. You'll be super happy.

The MX indeed has a factory cab available.

 

[GeoHorn]

I'd be looking at what machine you need longer term, and maybe buying that. Do what it can do during the setup, and either rent or hire out what it can't do. Otherwise you'll need to buy a too big machine (or wrong machine), then sell/rebuy. Not that it matters that much, tractors don't lose much value.

For some of your setup work a tractor isn't really the right machine. Do you have appetite to buy an older (but big) machine - bulldozer or excavator - until some of the work is done, then sell it?

Sounds like you want a cab tractor? If so, Grand L or M. MX I think doesn't have a factory cab, or at least not a good one? If you want a front snow blower, then Grand L is the right machine. If that's not essential (and you can move snow with a bucket, with a plow truck, with a rear blade, or with a rear blower) then M is an option.

In terms of your jobs:

• Cutting down trees. If someone will cut them and take away the timber, that's great. Otherwise, the actual cutting is a chainsaw, the question is what you're doing once it's cut. If it's a massive pile of firewood, then you need a splitter. Make sure you get rear remotes to run one. If you're trying to get lumber out of it, then you need a sawmill or a guy with a sawmill (probably the latter, they're not super easy to use I gather).
• Cleaning up after cutting down trees. Lots of branches and trash. A grapple is essential, therefore also a third function. Assume you'll make a huge burn pile and just burn it, anything else is too much work
• Stumps need good thought. What are you really doing with them? Grinding them means you're leaving most of it in the ground, they'll rot over time and the ground will subside, and it'll annoy you. You'll be constantly filling/levelling, or driving over holes and mounds. I think it's a better investment to take them out. A TLB is not really the tool for that job - it'll do it in a month of Sundays (as in, 30 Sundays, so half a year or more of work every Sunday). A big excavator will do it in a couple days. But then what - now you have holes all over your property, and a big pile of stumps to burn? A big bulldozer will flatten that again, but your topsoil will all no longer be on top.....and you don't want to bring in soil for 20 acres. Make sure you know the plan for what you're doing with the stumps, I doubt your tractor is really doing it
• Digging ponds can be done (slowly) with a TLB. Putting in a driveway can be done slowly with a bucket. Home foundations can be dug with a TLB. Septic can be installed with a TLB. To be honest, you're spending good money building a nice house, you're not living on the bones of your ass. A professional will do all those jobs way better than you ever will, and the guy plus his machine will cost less than your time/fuel/wear and tear. And the foundations will be straight and level, the driveway will have nice drainage, crowning and fall lines that you'll be pleased with but couldn't do yourself (or wouldn't even know to do), the septic will last a lifetime instead of giving you constant problems because you got something not quite right. I love doing jobs myself, but I'd personally limit myself to installing the pole barns and the like that I'm the only one who uses, and leave the house, septic and driveway (i.e. the bits my spouse uses) to professionals.
• If that's what you're doing, then your tractor is really a farm tractor plus snowblower. Grand-L, perhaps with a backhoe for smaller jobs, would be a great machine for that. Get the snowblower, some rear remotes so you can run a wood splitter and top+tilt for driveway maintenance, 3rd function and a grapple. Get the factory cab. Get a land plane for driveway maintenance. Make the yard bit of your house a couple of acres, and use your tractor to make it very level and lay a beautiful lawn with curves that the tractor can run around. Get a RFM and mow it fast. Get a rotary cutter for keeping the fields down. You'll be super happy.

That was a good post, Paul. Not everyone will agree 100% with every point…but over-all … very very good advice.

 

[mikester]

Get a later model Case580 or CAT420 full sized construction TLB. Finish your jobs, then sell if for what you paid for it. Go buy a nice new SCUT or CUT.

You will thank me for this advice.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

You can probably get a 2WD backhoe real cheap as everyone HAS to HAVE 4WD....
Unless you're in a peatbog, it's pretty hard to get any backhoe stuck.