Factory MX rear remote issues.

[mcmxi]

I have three factory rear remotes on the MX and I've noticed two of them are problematic on start up and one remains problematic. Hydraulic oil level is "perfect" and both the transmission and hydraulic oil filters were changed at 50 hours and clean oil added to top off the system. I currently have 110 hours on the MX and I let the tractor warm up before moving snow. I raise and lower the snow blade a couple of times, and raise and lower the blower a couple of times prior to moving to warm the hydraulic fluid and circulate it through the lines.

I use one remote to rotate the snow blower chute, one to change the deflector angle and the third "float" type remote for the cylinder that tilts the implement. The chute rotation remote works right away, the chute deflector remote doesn't work properly when I first start blowing snow (slow and only works in one direction) but then works fine after a few minutes, and the "float" remote once working won't reliably lock out in float mode (more recent development).

I'm not sure if this is a hydraulic fluid temperature issue or a valve adjustment issue or both. The MX is still covered by the factory warranty and I assume the remotes are covered too. The remote with "float" only recently started having lock out issues, but has been having general operational issues for weeks.

I have some factory literature pertaining to the remotes but will need to see if the remotes are adjustable. If anyone has any ideas as to what might be going on I'd appreciate it. Worst case is a trip to the dealer when the weather is better.

 

[loggin]

I have three factory rear remotes on the MX and I've noticed two of them are problematic on start up and one remains problematic. Hydraulic oil level is "perfect" and both the transmission and hydraulic oil filters were changed at 50 hours and clean oil added to top off the system. I currently have 110 hours on the MX and I let the tractor warm up before moving snow. I raise and lower the snow blade a couple of times, and raise and lower the blower a couple of times prior to moving to warm the hydraulic fluid and circulate it through the lines.

I use one remote to rotate the snow blower chute, one to change the deflector angle and the third "float" type remote for the cylinder that tilts the implement. The chute rotation remote works right away, the chute deflector remote doesn't work properly when I first start blowing snow (slow and only works in one direction) but then works fine after a few minutes, and the "float" remote once working won't reliably lock out in float mode (more recent development).

I'm not sure if this is a hydraulic fluid temperature issue or a valve adjustment issue or both. The MX is still covered by the factory warranty and I assume the remotes are covered too. The remote with "float" only recently started having lock out issues, but has been having general operational issues for weeks.

I have some factory literature pertaining to the remotes but will need to see if the remotes are adjustable. If anyone has any ideas as to what might be going on I'd appreciate it. Worst case is a trip to the dealer when the weather is better.

Have you tried calling the dealer to see what they say about the symptoms??

 

[mcmxi]

Have you tried calling the dealer to see what they say about the symptoms??

Yes. I spoke to the manager of the local dealer this morning who is a friend and we discussed how the valves work and what might be causing the issue. He's going to follow up with the technicians to see if they're aware of any problems or fixes. I'm going to do a better job of documenting what's going on and try to rule out obvious things such as levers making contact with the cab body.

At this point we're not sure what might be causing this, but he did confirm that anything installed on the tractor prior to purchase is covered by the 2 year bumper to bumper warranty, so if the valves are defective they'll be replaced at no cost to me.

 

[hedgerow]

Linkages would be the first think I would check to make sure snow, dirt or cab shifted a touch causing the problems. Cold causes a lot of problems with hyd's. I don't know anyone that uses a Kubota in the cold so I don't know if they have any issues. I don't have any remotes on my MX6000 and it won't see the light of day until spring. Hopefully the dealer will make some calls and get some answers. I am sure your not the only one that has had issues.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

One thing that can get overlooked is the Quick disconnects.
I have dealt with a ton of them that are shot right off the factory floor.
I've had far better luck with flat face connectors, but that's just my preference.
For the one that is being slow one direction and not the other swap hoses and see if it still stays the same?
I'm not saying that it is the couplers, but it's a possibility.

 

[mcmxi]

One thing that can get overlooked is the Quick disconnects.
I have dealt with a ton of them that are shot right off the factory floor.
I've had far better luck with flat face connectors, but that's just my preference.
For the one that is being slow one direction and not the other swap hoses and see if it still stays the same?
I'm not saying that it is the couplers, but it's a possibility.

I checked the couplers and valves this morning as the tractor was warming up and all looks good, but that's good advice for sure. I try to start with the simplest solution and escalate from there.

 

[mcmxi]

Linkages would be the first think I would check to make sure snow, dirt or cab shifted a touch causing the problems. Cold causes a lot of problems with hyd's. I don't know anyone that uses a Kubota in the cold so I don't know if they have any issues. I don't have any remotes on my MX6000 and it won't see the light of day until spring. Hopefully the dealer will make some calls and get some answers. I am sure your not the only one that has had issues.

So I checked all of the obvious stuff such as clearances, snow or ice build up, etc., and nothing looks out of whack. I then checked valve function as the tractor was warming up (25F or so outside temperature) and the chute rotation circuit worked as usual, the chute deflector circuit worked fine too, and even the tilt circuit worked but once again wouldn't lock in float mode. 25F beats 10F for initial warm up operation!

So I did the usual thing of backing down the driveway (one pass) and blowing snow, then heading down the lower gravel driveway and pushing snow using the snow blade. I make three trips down and up the lower 200 yard driveway which as you can imagine warms up the hydraulic oil nicely, particularly coming back up the driveway. After clearing the lower driveway I tried the float valve and it locked in float mode without a problem.

When I was using the tractor the other day it was around 10F and I was in a rush to get to an appointment in town so didn't clear the lower driveway which meant that I was trying to float the blower without getting the hydraulic oil as hot as it usually is. So I'm convinced that this is a simply an hydraulic oil temperature issue. Looking at the cylinders that each of the three remotes is attached to, the chute rotation vane cylinder is much smaller than either the chute deflector cylinder or the tilt cylinder which is the largest of the three. The two problematic circuits have larger heat sinks with more oil volume so it's reasonable to assume that the oil takes longer to warm up in those circuits.

Why the lock out float function is affected until the oil heats up might be explained by a contraction of some metal parts that might have very small clearances in order to function. Just a guess but now I'm satisfied that the problem is due to cold temperatures, different oil volumes, and shrinkage of float valve parts.

Chute rotation vane cylinder

Chute deflector cylinder

Tilt cylinder

Rear remote valves

Rear remote connections

Rear remote valves

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The float issue is more than likely moisture in the detent section of the valve, as float has nothing to do with the cylinders.
Just for clarity, it a Vane motor not cylinder.

I would have to pull the prints on the caps on the detents on the valves to see if you can just unscrew them and drain water and use something like WD40 to dry them out then spray lube.

 

[mcmxi]

The float issue is more than likely moisture in the detent section of the valve, as float has nothing to do with the cylinders.
Just for clarity, it a Vane motor not cylinder.

I would have to pull the prints on the caps on the detents on the valves to see if you can just unscrew them and drain water and use something like WD40 to dry them out then spray lube.

Ha! Ha! I was wondering what the proper term was for the vane motor. I seem to remember the schematics for the John Deere turnover plows I have referring to a vane "cylinder" for the mechanism that flips the plow so I went with that.

Thanks for the advice re the float valve. I was just guessing at why the lever wouldn't lock out until the hydraulic oil warms up. I figured it was some part in the valve body shrinking to the point of not being able to function correctly, but water seems like a reasonable alternative. So it's possible that water is freezing inside the valve body which prevents the lever from locking in the float position until the water melts?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I looked on the Kubota parts website and didn't get a good answer on removing the bottom caps on the detent, I need a better breakdown.
The part where it will hold water and freeze would be where part #110 is at.

I'll keep looking for more info.

This is all I have seen so far:

 

[mcmxi]

I looked on the Kubota parts website and didn't get a good answer on removing the bottom caps on the detent, I need a better breakdown.
The part where it will hold water and freeze would be where part #110 is at.

I'll keep looking for more info.

This is all I have seen so far:
View attachment 95021

Thanks for the schematic. I didn't have an issue with the remotes last year but the tractor was new and we didn't have anywhere near as much snow as we've had this year. It was warmer last year too and it's possible that the significant temperature swings we've seen this winter have contributed to the problem.

All in all I'm satisfied that it's not a big deal, and allowing the hydraulic oil to warm up sufficiently before using the float valve is a decent work around. The valve bodies are fairly well protected from the weather so if water is getting into the valve it must be from condensation, or maybe from me washing the tractor in the warmer months!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Just be aware that the long term issue is if it is a water issue that it will rust up the detent parts and cause a greater permanent issue down the line.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for the schematic. I didn't have an issue with the remotes last year but the tractor was new and we didn't have anywhere near as much snow as we've had this year. It was warmer last year too and it's possible that the significant temperature swings we've seen this winter have contributed to the problem.

All in all I'm satisfied that it's not a big deal, and allowing the hydraulic oil to warm up sufficiently before using the float valve is a decent work around. The valve bodies are fairly well protected from the weather so if water is getting into the valve it must be from condensation, or maybe from me washing the tractor in the warmer months!

Do I understand correctly - the float detent on the one valve does not hold? If so it could be as simple as an adjustment problem with the linkage. Perhaps the spool is not being shifted far enough to fully engage the detent. Are those cable opersted?

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

Just be aware that the long term issue is if it is a water issue that it will rust up the detent parts and cause a greater permanent issue down the line.

Yes, that would be a concern and probably not covered under warranty.

 

[mcmxi]

Do I understand correctly - the float detent on the one valve does not hold? If so it could be as simple as an adjustment problem with the linkage. Perhaps the spool is not being shifted far enough to fully engage the detent. Are those cable opersted?

Dan

No, they're linkage operated but not cable i.e. not electric over hydraulic or anything fancy like that. The float lever won't lock into float mode unless the hydraulic fluid is sufficiently warm. It locks in ok once the tractor has been up and down the driveway a few times. This is what makes me think it's simply a cold hydraulic fluid problem, made worse by the cold fluid in the two larger cylinders of the two affected circuits.

I was looking at the valves today to get a better understanding of how the hydraulic fluid flows through or past them and back to the "tank". One of the photos above shows the feed line, return line and another line.

 

[MOOTS]

No, they're linkage operated but not cable i.e. not electric over hydraulic or anything fancy like that. The float lever won't lock into float mode unless the hydraulic fluid is sufficiently warm. It locks in ok once the tractor has been up and down the driveway a few times. This is what makes me think it's simply a cold hydraulic fluid problem, made worse by the cold fluid in the two larger cylinders of the two affected circuits.

I was looking at the valves today to get a better understanding of how the hydraulic fluid flows through or past them and back to the "tank". One of the photos above shows the feed line, return line and another line.

Not electric cable, like a push/pull type deal. That was gonna be my first thought too, the actual cables are frozen and binding up.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

No, they're linkage operated but not cable i.e. not electric over hydraulic or anything fancy like that. The float lever won't lock into float mode unless the hydraulic fluid is sufficiently warm. It locks in ok once the tractor has been up and down the driveway a few times. This is what makes me think it's simply a cold hydraulic fluid problem, made worse by the cold fluid in the two larger cylinders of the two affected circuits.

I was looking at the valves today to get a better understanding of how the hydraulic fluid flows through or past them and back to the "tank". One of the photos above shows the feed line, return line and another line.

Don't make me drive over and fix it!

Or at least can we wait till it warms up a little!

 

[mcmxi]

Not electric cable, like a push/pull type deal. That was gonna be my first thought too, the actual cables are frozen and binding up.

You were thinking like a throttle cable right? My response wasn't worded very well but I understood what @TheOldHokie meant. It's a lever and linkage that connects to the valve body directly, like your MX. I can't remember how the MX open station was configured but I think it's very similar to the cabbed model. You can see the linkages in the photo above.

I haven't looked closely but I imagine the M with the levers much further forward relative to the operator have some kind of cable linkage to connect the levers to the remotes. I don't think those are electric over hydraulic but at some point will take a look.

 

[mcmxi]

Don't make me drive over and fix it!

Or at least can we wait till it warms up a little!

It's a nice drive from Sandpoint to Kalispell so I'll leave a light on for you!

 

[MOOTS]

You were thinking like a throttle cable right? My response wasn't worded very well but I understood what @TheOldHokie meant. It's a lever and linkage that connects to the valve body directly, like your MX. I can't remember how the MX open station was configured but I think it's very similar to the cabbed model. You can see the linkages in the photo above.

I haven't looked closely but I imagine the M with the levers much further forward relative to the operator have some kind of cable linkage to connect the levers to the remotes. I don't think those are electric over hydraulic but at some point will take a look.

I see now. I thought the cabbed models had some type of push/pull cable to operate the valve from lever movement. I'm guessing the inside just has some rubber shielding where the lever comes into cab?