Standard manual vs hydrostatic on slope

[liam.hanninen]

I have a B7200 non-hydrostatic. As I understand how this sort of transmission operates I can/should not change gears while on a slope; I would need to brake to not roll down the hill but can't move after changing gear with the brake depressed.

Yesterday I attempted a very simple project on one of the softer slopes at my property. The goal was to come from the garage you can see in the distance, come up the sight slope, then collect some logs, take the logs further up the slope (which flattens just beyond the photo).

When I got up to the logs I had to be mostly perpendicular to the slope in order to be in a position to move between 1st and reverse. This made it so I wouldn't roll back down the slope but forced be in a bit of a tight spot between my house and the retaining wall. And this is the main issue - not being able to change gears on the slope put me in a tight spot. It also required me to go all the way back down the hill when coming back.

I'm sure drivers with more experience could maneuver more comfortably but for a newbie this was a challenge.

I did a few loads but as you can see I didn't finish. This wasn't the right tool for the job for my skill level. Would I have better luck with a hydrostatic transmission? Would that mean I could change gears on a slope so that I would have been able to come at the logs from a sloped but better angle?

 

[jimh406]

This is a very simple explanation that some may not agree with.

You have two controls, throttle, and pedal on a HST. The gear equivalent to me is how much pedal you use. When you add pedal, you go faster ... similar, but not the same as an automatic transmission. As long as you have enough throttle at the start with enough HP, you can go from zero to top speed on any slope.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Had a look, and your tractor has straight cut gears/no synchros in the transmission so you do NOT change gears while in motion. You select the appropriate gear for the current task,let out clutch and move..... You can't 'shift on the fly' like a sports car.......
Driving any 'stick shift' vehicle take practice. That slope is 'mild' compared to what I'm used to for the past 55 years,so really you need HOURS behind the wheel to get the 'hang of it'.
Driving an HST can be easier as there's no 'shifting' once you've selected the 'range' (low or high ).

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Good day. First looks like a beautiful property you have there. 2nd you do have some hills…I have two hilly properties and they require a different approach IMO especially for material handling. I think you did great, key point is always keep your mind right and stop if you need to…if you did not injure your self or r someone else and kept tractor right side up, then you did great. In general regarding your question on transmissions, I think either way use a low gear and keep rpm’s up…. But if it doesn’t feel right, then use gravity to your advantage…roll the logs down hill to where you can safely grab them. however, in advance, think about approach….When we think about approach and/or departure on hills vs material handling, I think it is helpful to think about how you can do the process in reverse order as well as picking the places where your can turn and offload a load if necessary or get yourself out of a situation should it go wrong…I am sure my neighbors laugh but if I am not sure I start and walk with my arms out like an airplane for some general assessment on width, then, if still seems a little dicey I grab a 2x4 or something and do again. Then if I feel it is ok I do an empty run on the machine and check with my title meter…if worried don’t do a full bucket first try…For me at my place, I need room to swing, flat place to stop…parking brakes are not meant to hold a hillside, and room to set the material…I personally put a lot in pallets but it takes a bit more room. The other thing I tend to do is I make a judgement between using a trailer and more manual lifting/unloading of stuff versus put the load in the bucket or on forks…sometimes I just have to either push a trailer to the material from the front with a front hitch or pull or back in with a trailer…sort of depends on the assessment and in some cases if I can’t get in and out, then I try to find another location. I am not sure that really helps or not, but I think make sure you are ballasted, pick a low gear and keep rpm’s up for controlling the load…not for speed…if you are planning to use momentum to get up the hill hauling a load in the bucket, IMO that’s not a good plan. Think As slow as possible and as fast is necessary.

 

[liam.hanninen]

Good day. First looks like a beautiful property you have there. 2nd you do have some hills…I have two hilly properties and they require a different approach IMO especially for material handling. I think you did great, key point is always keep your mind right and stop if you need to…if you did not injure your self or r someone else and kept tractor right side up, then you did great. In general regarding your question on transmissions, I think either way use a low gear and keep rpm’s up…. But if it doesn’t feel right, then use gravity to your advantage…roll the logs down hill to where you can safely grab them. however, in advance, think about approach….When we think about approach and/or departure on hills vs material handling, I think it is helpful to think about how you can do the process in reverse order as well as picking the places where your can turn and offload a load if necessary or get yourself out of a situation should it go wrong…I am sure my neighbors laugh but if I am not sure I start and walk with my arms out like an airplane for some general sweetness on width, the. If still seems a little dicey I grab a 2x4 or something and do again. Then if I feel it is ok I do an empty run on the machine and check with my title meter…if worried don’t do a full bucket first try…For me at my place, I need room to swing, flat place to stop…parking brakes are not meant to hold a hillside, and room to set the material…I personally put a lot in pallets but it takes a bit more room. The other thing I tend to do is I make a judgement between using a trailer and more manual lifting/unloading of stuff versus put the load in the bucket or on forks…sometimes I just have to either push a trailer to the material from the front with a front hitch or pull or back in with a trailer…sort of depends on the assessment and in some cases if I can’t get in and out, then I try to find another location. I am not sure that really helps or not, but I think make sure you are ballasted, pick a low gear and keep rpm’s up for controlling the load…not for speed…if you are planning to use momentum to get up the hill hauling a load in the bucket, IMO that’s not a good plan. Think As slow as possible and as fast is necessary.

Thanks! Sounds like you're very deliberate and planned when it comes to hilly work. The specific part about changing gears based on how people are answering I didn't word correctly. I'm not as curious about changing from a low to high great as much as 1st to reverse and reverse to 1st. Essentially 3-pt turn maneuvering.

 

[jimh406]

I'm not as curious about changing from a low to high great as much as 1st to reverse and reverse to 1st.

My HST will hold on most slopes to change from F to R with no issues. But, in any case, it's pushing at the front of the pedal compared to pushing on the rear.

 

[liam.hanninen]

My HST will hold on most slopes to change from F to R with no issues. But, in any case, it's pushing at the front of the pedal compared to pushing on the rear.

That's promising. But what do you mean by your last sentence?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

one possible method....
requires a wheel chock on a rope

say you start down at garage..getting logs..

drive up driveway to 'log drop off'
put into neutral,brake on
put wheel chock under left rear tire
remove the logs....
place wheel chock back into trailer
drive tractor to top of driveway, turn around,go back to garage or wood pile.

This is simple 'straight line' driving, wheel chock is the 'safety'.

 

[jimh406]

That's promising. But what do you mean by your last sentence?

The Kubota pedal is a rocker. Push on the front to go forward, push on the rear to go backwards.

 

[TGKY]

I can't speak to whether or not you'd have better luck with and HST, but I can speak to the gear drive transmission as that is what I learned on originally and always had in older tractors, and now my L4701.

First it sounds like you took a great approach cautious and safety first.
The old farmer that taught me to run a gear drive tractor let me get myself in just enough mess on a slope that I got in trouble but didn't turn over his tractor.... but I learned fast.... I remember the day I started fussing at him that one could not start and stop on a slop and after watching me struggle for what seemed like an eternity, he had me stop on the slope (i get the safety issues, never the less), get off, then he proceeded to get on.... and promptly.... and safely, maneuver all over the hillside, starting, stopping changing gears etc.... without so much as rolling an inch in the wrong direction.

Besides reminiscing for my own benefit, my point is, that with experience and practice- and it can come quick- you can operate a gear drive on a slope without rolling the wrong way. While holding your break, in the desired gear, and slowly letting out the clutch, there is a point where the clutch will "grab" and hold the tractor in place and you will be able to release the break, further let out on the clutch and move. You can actually hold in place on the hill with only the clutch. I absolutely recommend you only do this in low gear. Also, side slope introduces some other intricacies that I am not getting into here.

Keep you bucket low, have some rear ballast and practice is my suggestion, but keep the safety mindset first. If I can figure it out safely, anyone can.

 

[NCL4701]

HST is definitely easier to operate in the conditions you describe. Doesn’t mean gear/clutch/shuttle or gear/clutch/no shuttle won’t work but it will take more skill and practice. Having approximately 1/2 acre of flat area on our 70 acres is one of the reasons I have HST.

 

[torch]

Back in the day, our old Ford 9N had terrible brakes. To work on a hill we faced the tractor downhill and left the transmission in reverse gear. To go down hill, push in the clutch and let gravity take over. To brake, start slipping the clutch.

We faced downhill to avoid flipping the tractor over backwards if the clutch work was too aggressive.

 

[liam.hanninen]

I can't speak to whether or not you'd have better luck with and HST, but I can speak to the gear drive transmission as that is what I learned on originally and always had in older tractors, and now my L4701.

First it sounds like you took a great approach cautious and safety first.
The old farmer that taught me to run a gear drive tractor let me get myself in just enough mess on a slope that I got in trouble but didn't turn over his tractor.... but I learned fast.... I remember the day I started fussing at him that one could not start and stop on a slop and after watching me struggle for what seemed like an eternity, he had me stop on the slope (i get the safety issues, never the less), get off, then he proceeded to get on.... and promptly.... and safely, maneuver all over the hillside, starting, stopping changing gears etc.... without so much as rolling an inch in the wrong direction.

Besides reminiscing for my own benefit, my point is, that with experience and practice- and it can come quick- you can operate a gear drive on a slope without rolling the wrong way. While holding your break, in the desired gear, and slowly letting out the clutch, there is a point where the clutch will "grab" and hold the tractor in place and you will be able to release the break, further let out on the clutch and move. You can actually hold in place on the hill with only the clutch. I absolutely recommend you only do this in low gear. Also, side slope introduces some other intricacies that I am not getting into here.

Keep you bucket low, have some rear ballast and practice is my suggestion, but keep the safety mindset first. If I can figure it out safely, anyone can.

This is very interesting. That makes sense. I'm going to try that on the very bottom of this slope. Very short distance to roll and not steep but something I can practice safely.

 

[liam.hanninen]

one possible method....
requires a wheel chock on a rope

say you start down at garage..getting logs..

drive up driveway to 'log drop off'
put into neutral,brake on
put wheel chock under left rear tire
remove the logs....
place wheel chock back into trailer
drive tractor to top of driveway, turn around,go back to garage or wood pile.

This is simple 'straight line' driving, wheel chock is the 'safety'.

This makes a lot of sense to me thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

one of those 'work smarter, not harder' ideas....
hope it works for you.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I have a B7200 non-hydrostatic. As I understand how this sort of transmission operates I can/should not change gears while on a slope; I would need to brake to not roll down the hill but can't move after changing gear with the brake depressed.

Yesterday I attempted a very simple project on one of the softer slopes at my property. The goal was to come from the garage you can see in the distance, come up the sight slope, then collect some logs, take the logs further up the slope (which flattens just beyond the photo).

When I got up to the logs I had to be mostly perpendicular to the slope in order to be in a position to move between 1st and reverse. This made it so I wouldn't roll back down the slope but forced be in a bit of a tight spot between my house and the retaining wall. And this is the main issue - not being able to change gears on the slope put me in a tight spot. It also required me to go all the way back down the hill when coming back.

I'm sure drivers with more experience could maneuver more comfortably but for a newbie this was a challenge.

I did a few loads but as you can see I didn't finish. This wasn't the right tool for the job for my skill level. Would I have better luck with a hydrostatic transmission? Would that mean I could change gears on a slope so that I would have been able to come at the logs from a sloped but better angle?

View attachment 93692

As long ad your brskes are working you can change gears on a slope:

Reduce engine speed to aan idle and come to a complete STOP by depressing the clutch and brake at the same time.

Change gears.

Resume travel by slightly engaging the clutch and then releasing the brake followef by the clutch.

Adjust engine speed as appropriate.

I suggest you test your brakes prior to trying to change gears. Just stop as above leaving the tractor in gear. If the brakes are not holding the tractor with the clutch depressed let it back out and drive to level ground.

Dan

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Find an HST to replace that one, you'll be much safer and better off in the long run.

 

[liam.hanninen]

As long ad your brskes are working you can change gears on a slope:

Reduce engine speed to aan idle and come to a complete STOP by depressing the clutch and brake at the same time.

Change gears.

Resume travel by slightly engaging the clutch and then releasing the brake followef by the clutch.

Adjust engine speed as appropriate.

I suggest you test your brakes prior to trying to change gears. Just stop as above leaving the tractor in gear. If the brakes are not holding the tractor with the clutch depressed let it back out and drive to level ground.

Dan

That's good to know. Thanks. If I can't sell this one for an HST I will need to be able to do this.

 

[Nate77]

As long ad your brskes are working you can change gears on a slope:

Reduce engine speed to aan idle and come to a complete STOP by depressing the clutch and brake at the same time.

Change gears.

Resume travel by slightly engaging the clutch and then releasing the brake followef by the clutch.

Adjust engine speed as appropriate.

I suggest you test your brakes prior to trying to change gears. Just stop as above leaving the tractor in gear. If the brakes are not holding the tractor with the clutch depressed let it back out and drive to level ground.

Dan

Bingo,

The same procedure as anything else with a clutch, and manual transmission

 

[TheOldHokie]

That's good to know. Thanks. If I can't sell this one for an HST I will need to be able to do this.

HST is much more convrnient but I used that same tractor on steep hills for 20+ years. You will learn pretty quickly. Try to turn partially side hill when stopping and parking. Loader bucket or 3pt blade makes a good backup for the parking brake.

Dan