Kubota L5240 won't start

[Claud]

First time poster here. I have a Kubota L5240 HST that came with a property I bought earlier this year. It's had trouble starting for various reasons, but I've replaced the battery, drained old fuel, changed coolant, done all the maintenance, and it was fairly reliable for a few months until earlier this week when it just won't start after I cleaned the fuel filter (it's always taken several hours of rest to re-start after prior fuel filter cleans, yes I followed air bleed instructions in manual). The battery seems ok (550cca 12.3v at rest) but I've also tried jumping it from my truck (620 cca 12.5v at rest, 14.4v running) and car (680cca 12.7 v at rest) and various combinations with jumpers and cannot get more than the same weak single rhuumph, it just cranks slowly once. multimeter registers low voltage of 3.6v with tractor battery alone and 4.8v with running truck jumper cabled to battery.

I've taken the starter system apart and can't find anything wrong (it spins when directly attached to the battery). The fuel pump also seems to work (though I only get a small pulse of fuel because of the tiny movement of the cam shaft) . Of course now that it won't start, I can't bleed the fuel line effectively.

I need to get it cranking. Does anyone have any ideas for what to try next?

 

[GSD-Keegan]

Try running one booster cable from the negative terminal on the battery to the starter framework…also negative.

 

[Roadworthy]

Pull your battery cables. Clean the connectors and the battery terminals. Replace connectors and tighten securely. Follow ground lead to frame - clean and tighten there, too. Charge your battery. After charging your battery should read at least 12.6 volts and possibly over thirteen due to surface charge. While cranking tractor monitor battery voltage - on the battery terminals - to see actual battery status. If the voltage drops below about ten you may have a battery problem. If voltage is up and cranking is slow it may be time to replace the starter though further troubleshooting will help confirm this.

 

[D2Cat]

Pull your battery cables. Clean the connectors and the battery terminals. Replace connectors and tighten securely. Follow ground lead to frame - clean and tighten there, too. Charge your battery. After charging your battery should read at least 12.6 volts and possibly over thirteen due to surface charge. While cranking tractor monitor battery voltage - on the battery terminals - to see actual battery status. If the voltage drops below about ten you may have a battery problem. If voltage is up and cranking is slow it may be time to replace the starter though further troubleshooting will help confirm this.

What Roadworthy said. Might pull the battery and have it load tested at the local auto supply. Probably gave up the ghost!

 

[The Evil Twin]

multimeter registers low voltage of 3.6v with tractor battery alone and 4.8v with running truck jumper cabled to battery.

I've taken the starter system apart and can't find anything wrong (it spins when directly attached to the battery).

That really sounds like a battery gone bad. It might be sucking up too much power from the truck. Have you disconnected the tractor battery and used just the truck?

 

[Claud]

Thanks for your advice, everyone.
Starter went to auto electric shop. I was told it was in great working order and shop guy told me that if i left it he would clean it and put on the shelf for sale (I didn't leave it obviously).
Cleaned connectors with electronic cleaner between battery and starter.
The old battery when analyzed read 350 CCA (rated at 550 CCA). I got the battery replaced with a new 600 CCA version. Still not starting, it cranks slowly without firing.
I'm pretty certain that there's air in the fuel lines that I can't get out. Manual calls for starting engine with air bleed cock open, running for 30 seconds then closing the cock. It's a catch 22 in that I cannot start the engine in order to push the air out. Trying to "crank" air out by turning it over and hoping that it will eventually fire. Shall I continue to leave the cock open or should I close it at some point? Any other ideas for what to try next?
Thanks again.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Have you tried the suggestion above from GSD-Keegan?
After that, if it is the same, you can use a multimeter across parts of the circuit. Almost no resistance should be present. You can test the relay by disconnecting the hot/ battery side and have a buddy turn the key to energize the relay. That should also be essentially 0 resistance.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Shall I continue to leave the cock open or should I close it at some point?

Yes, leave it open until the engine is running. It'll run fine, just may not make full power. It's purging air while you crank the engine over.

FWIW, it sounds like your engine is still not cranking as fast as it should

 

[Claud]

Try running one booster cable from the negative terminal on the battery to the starter framework…also negative.
[/QUOTE
I tried this without success both with neg. terminal grounded and ungrounded.

 

[GSD-Keegan]

Yes, leave it open until the engine is running. It'll run fine, just may not make full power. It's purging air while you crank the engine over.

FWIW, it sounds like your engine is still not cranking as fast as it should

I agree with PoTreeBoy. From your description of the symptoms, It sounds like your starter is not spinning the engine fast enough. That is why I suggested a poor ground somewhere in the circuit. It’s possible a poor positive connection is also the culpri. These are tough to diagnose over the internet. With my mechanic experience I have found a poor ground connection between the starter and it’s mounting connection to the engine block, which is why there is sometimes a short ground strap between the starter mounting bolts and the frame of the vehicle. Not saying this is your issue, but from what your describing, and the fact that others have diagnosed the starter as in proper working order, I would be focusing on your wiring and connection. Just fwiw

 

[Claud]

Have you tried the suggestion above from GSD-Keegan?
After that, if it is the same, you can use a multimeter across parts of the circuit. Almost no resistance should be present. You can test the relay by disconnecting the hot/ battery side and have a buddy turn the key to energize the relay. That should also be essentially 0 resistance.

I am not certain where and how I should be measuring resistance. I disconnected pos. terminal then set multimeter to read resistance (ohms). At this point where should I measure the ohms across the circuit? Is it between the starter pos. stud and the starter body? At this location the resistance reads a fluctuation in the 25 to 35 ohm range. What does this indicate, if anything?
Please advise.

 

[The Evil Twin]

I am not certain where and how I should be measuring resistance. I disconnected pos. terminal then set multimeter to read resistance (ohms). At this point where should I measure the ohms across the circuit? Is it between the starter pos. stud and the starter body? At this location the resistance reads a fluctuation in the 25 to 35 ohm range. What does this indicate, if anything?
Please advise.

You are measuring winding resistance by doing that, and it seems rather high. It's been a while since I've rung out a starter winding but I recall >2 ohms. You sure it wasn't 2.5 to 3.5?
Anyway, on the flip side of what GSD-Keegan was suggesting (bad grounding) I'm suggesting there may be an issue on the hot side. So you would need to check between the positive post on the starter to the starter relay output. Should be close to 0 ohms. It should be a straight wire for the most part. Then do the same for the input to the relay to the battery cable clamp. Again, should be 0 ohms. The only thing left is the solenoid itself which would require checking across it when it is energized. Disconnect the starter so it doesn't spin. Checking from input to output should again be close to 0.
Not that I advise the novice to do this, but you could use jumpers to bypass all the hot side wiring and go direct to the starter. I'll let you look that up on your own.

 

[ve9aa]

Not familiar with your model tractor AT ALL (wouldn't know if it it jumped up and bit me), but if wires are good, battery is good (meh-maybe?) then all that's left is the starter solenoid in the starting circuit. (unless maybe it was bolted to the top of the starter, which you've already tested)

Is there a way for you to put the tractor in neutral, brakes on, or all wheels off the ground and remove your battery from the equation and use a jump pack (or your truck) and just go to the body of the starter (ground) and positive stud on starter and take the solenoid out of the equation. Maybe corrored or degraded contacts? (*hint-all starting current passes through it)

??

 

[jimmyjoe]

First time poster here. I have a Kubota L5240 HST that came with a property I bought earlier this year. It's had trouble starting for various reasons, but I've replaced the battery, drained old fuel, changed coolant, done all the maintenance, and it was fairly reliable for a few months until earlier this week when it just won't start after I cleaned the fuel filter (it's always taken several hours of rest to re-start after prior fuel filter cleans, yes I followed air bleed instructions in manual). The battery seems ok (550cca 12.3v at rest) but I've also tried jumping it from my truck (620 cca 12.5v at rest, 14.4v running) and car (680cca 12.7 v at rest) and various combinations with jumpers and cannot get more than the same weak single rhuumph, it just cranks slowly once. multimeter registers low voltage of 3.6v with tractor battery alone and 4.8v with running truck jumper cabled to battery.

I've taken the starter system apart and can't find anything wrong (it spins when directly attached to the battery). The fuel pump also seems to work (though I only get a small pulse of fuel because of the tiny movement of the cam shaft) . Of course now that it won't start, I can't bleed the fuel line effectively.

I need to get it cranking. Does anyone have any ideas for what to try next?

Is your hydraulic pump trying to pump high pressure when trying to start?

 

[RBsingl]

The resistance of cables and connections is far too low to read with a typical DMM, you need a special low resistance meter for that because even .01 ohms of resistance would cause a 4 volt drop in the 12 volt circuit with 400 amps of starting draw and a regular meter can't read reliably under 1 ohm. Instead set your meter to read voltage and read the voltage drop across cables and connections to locate any faulty cable or connection.

Rodger

 

[Claud]

Is your hydraulic pump trying to pump high pressure when trying to start?

No, neither the loader nor the PTO controllers are on, so there should be no demands at all on the hydraulic system.

 

[lugbolt]

do a voltage drop test between battery and starter. When cranking it should read less than 1v, ideally best 0.5v or less.

next do a voltage drop test from battery negative (or "earth") to a GOOD chassis ground, engine block, etc, while cranking. Again less than 1v but better 0.5 or less should be displayed on the DVOM

if those are ok and you KNOW the starter's ok, is it possible that the engine itself might have a problem? Pull the dipstick out and sniff the engine oil on it. Smell burnt? If it does, might have been overheated; piston trying to seize in a bore, wristpin stuck, spun bearing(s), etc....all will cause hard cranking. Similarly, a hydraulic component, maybe loader valve trying to lift while cranking, or 3ph trying t lift an implement while cranking, that sorta thing--all leads to a significant load on the starter, which can sometimes make ya think that there's some other problem. If the 3ph lever it all the way in the up position, try moving it to a more down position, if an implement is not on it or already on the ground, just run the 3ph lever all the way to "down" and try cranking again.

when changing a fuel filter, I always leave the ring loose, then turn the fuel back on. Let fuel bowl fill up, and fuel run out of around the ring until no more bubbles come out (just takes a few seconds), then tighten it up--rare to have to bleed anything if you do it that way.

On booster cables--these things take a LOT of amperage to crank them over, so most commercially available booster cables MIGHT start a little lawn mower but are way too small to crank a car--much less a tractor--over. For that, I'd highly suggest making or buying a set of GOOD cables, a set that like this will cost you $200+, but will last you a lifetime. I made mine, 1/0 welding wire and 800A parrot clamps, 15' long. Heavy but they've never failed to start anything I've attached them to. Place I used to work for was too cheap to buy a decent set and in the winter when a 150hp tractor wouldn't start, they'd get their handy-dandy 10ga cables out and try to crank it up. I watched a set of them burn all the insulation right off of the cables. Lucky nobody got hurt on that deal. Of course I built my own cables and had to use them somewhat often on that kind of stuff, and then I left--and took my cables with me. Boss thought they were his, and threw a fit about it, so I had to go back over there (after I left) and give him receipts for the wire, clamps, sheathing, solder, crimp tool, crimpers, etc. That's the kind of person I worked for...and don't miss one bit. I do kinda miss working on Kubota but not working for that guy.

 

[Claud]

Finally got it started!

Been trying everything you all suggested (plus what the folks at 3 Kubota dealer service desks suggested) for days. What finally did the trick was to attach a battery booster pack to the new battery, that finally got it to turn over enough to get started, which let me bleed the air out of the fuel line. I was afraid of murdering the new battery so I was limiting the number of sad cranks to about 3 in-a-row as it sounded to be decreasing in vigor.

Attached a 1000 CCA jumper pack and tried to crank a couple of times. At one point my foot lifted off the clutch and I re-depressed the pedal and it came alive. Ran for 30-60 sec, turned it off and closed the air cock. Started up again no problem with the booster pack attached, ran it for a few more minutes. Turned it off, detached the booster pack cables, and started it back up no problem.

I've always had issues starting after bleeding the fuel lines, but normally it starts up the next day. This time it took a week, and only with the added boost. Another thing that's odd is that I took out and tested the starter relay and it didn't show continuity (per the service manual) yet it started?

I have a hydraulic fuel leak at the inlet hose (part #TD170-33343) and am awaiting that part as it wasn't in stock locally. With that installed next week the skies will clear and I will proceed with my numerous tractor-dependent projects.

I'm super relieved to have it running again for sure, and I'd love to figure out how to preempt this from happening again if anyone has any ideas! Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it.

This forum is worth it weight in gold in terms of how it kept my from going into complete despair and walking away from the whole shebang.

Thanks again, Claud
No code has to be inserted here.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Finally got it started!

Been trying everything you all suggested (plus what the folks at 3 Kubota dealer service desks suggested) for days. What finally did the trick was to attach a battery booster pack to the new battery, that finally got it to turn over enough to get started, which let me bleed the air out of the fuel line. I was afraid of murdering the new battery so I was limiting the number of sad cranks to about 3 in-a-row as it sounded to be decreasing in vigor.

Attached a 1000 CCA jumper pack and tried to crank a couple of times. At one point my foot lifted off the clutch and I re-depressed the pedal and it came alive. Ran for 30-60 sec, turned it off and closed the air cock. Started up again no problem with the booster pack attached, ran it for a few more minutes. Turned it off, detached the booster pack cables, and started it back up no problem.

I've always had issues starting after bleeding the fuel lines, but normally it starts up the next day. This time it took a week, and only with the added boost. Another thing that's odd is that I took out and tested the starter relay and it didn't show continuity (per the service manual) yet it started?

I have a hydraulic fuel leak at the inlet hose (part #TD170-33343) and am awaiting that part as it wasn't in stock locally. With that installed next week the skies will clear and I will proceed with my numerous tractor-dependent projects.

I'm super relieved to have it running again for sure, and I'd love to figure out how to preempt this from happening again if anyone has any ideas! Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it.

This forum is worth it weight in gold in terms of how it kept my from going into complete despair and walking away from the whole shebang.

Thanks again, Claud
No code has to be inserted here.

It shouldn't be that hard to bleed. Do you open the fuel cock and let the bowl fill up before tightening it? That let's a lot of air out. Otherwise, I'd check the lift pump for good flow.o

 

[wgator]

Finally got it started!

Been trying everything you all suggested (plus what the folks at 3 Kubota dealer service desks suggested) for days. What finally did the trick was to attach a battery booster pack to the new battery, that finally got it to turn over enough to get started, which let me bleed the air out of the fuel line. I was afraid of murdering the new battery so I was limiting the number of sad cranks to about 3 in-a-row as it sounded to be decreasing in vigor.

Attached a 1000 CCA jumper pack and tried to crank a couple of times. At one point my foot lifted off the clutch and I re-depressed the pedal and it came alive. Ran for 30-60 sec, turned it off and closed the air cock. Started up again no problem with the booster pack attached, ran it for a few more minutes. Turned it off, detached the booster pack cables, and started it back up no problem.

I've always had issues starting after bleeding the fuel lines, but normally it starts up the next day. This time it took a week, and only with the added boost. Another thing that's odd is that I took out and tested the starter relay and it didn't show continuity (per the service manual) yet it started?

I have a hydraulic fuel leak at the inlet hose (part #TD170-33343) and am awaiting that part as it wasn't in stock locally. With that installed next week the skies will clear and I will proceed with my numerous tractor-dependent projects.

I'm super relieved to have it running again for sure, and I'd love to figure out how to preempt this from happening again if anyone has any ideas! Thanks again for all your help, I really appreciate it.

This forum is worth it weight in gold in terms of how it kept my from going into complete despair and walking away from the whole shebang.

Thanks again, Claud
No code has to be inserted here.

Down load the L5240 workshop manual by CLICKING HERE. It will help you troubleshoot current and future problems.