Chip DPF Delete Discussion

[lugbolt]

nope the government (OBiden) in the us has been REALLY cracking down on defeating emissions. Many aftermarket automotive companies have been hit as of lately. You can't even buy an "off road" crossover pipe now, the people that make them are scared that the EPA's going after them--and for good reason.

some say it started with diesel deletes, but it started long before that. During 08-16, we saw a good bit of activity here with oil/gas fracking (which is now banned), and the drill site trucks were getting deleted; it made sense to the owners--UNTIL someone got in trouble, the law got wind of it and then they got a hefty fine for EACH of their hundred and some odd trucks that were tampered. From 16-20 it wasn't a big deal, but now Obiden thinks he can rule the land by enforcing laws that were previously mostly ignored. You've been warned....

So if you guys want to delete, you better head to canada or mexico or europe. Or Russia or Timbuktu or wherever, but it's not likely to happen here in the usa. If you know someone who does do it you better not tell a soul. It is my understanding that there is a pretty hefty reward for ratting them out, similarly if I see someone deliberately discharge CFC refrigerant into the atmosphere and document it properly, I can be rewarded nicely. I wouldn't ever do that to someone but that's the way the regulations are written.

 

[mzimbaro]

I live in Canada, I have a Kubota B3350 that i bought used just over a year ago and I have nothing but problems with the DPF. The dealer that sold it to me said it had electrical issues that were eventually fixed. I know that is not true now. I am computer literate and would appreciate any tips or information about how the DPF system works on this model of tractor. Already out too much money and stuck with it for life.

 

[eserv]

I live in Canada, I have a Kubota B3350 that i bought used just over a year ago and I have nothing but problems with the DPF. The dealer that sold it to me said it had electrical issues that were eventually fixed. I know that is not true now. I am computer literate and would appreciate any tips or information about how the DPF system works on this model of tractor. Already out too much money and stuck with it for life.

This might help. Basically convert your B3350 into a B2650 with a larger engine. Let us know how it goes!

 

[troverman]

I live in Canada, I have a Kubota B3350 that i bought used just over a year ago and I have nothing but problems with the DPF. The dealer that sold it to me said it had electrical issues that were eventually fixed. I know that is not true now. I am computer literate and would appreciate any tips or information about how the DPF system works on this model of tractor. Already out too much money and stuck with it for life.

Unfortunately that model has a bad reputation from the emissions standpoint, and living in a cold climate is the worst possible scenario.

I think in short, the problem is that the DPF is too small. The updated model uses a larger DPF similar to the ones used on larger Kubota models. Those don't have problems. The small DPF fills too quickly, and needs frequent regens.

If you aren't familiar with the basic concepts of a DPF emissions system, here goes:

The DPF is a matrix which traps diesel soot particles while exhaust gases may still pass through. Soot particles are larger so they get caught. Over time, so much soot is caught that the filter matrix begins to plug up and make it hard for the exhaust gas to pass through. Eventually, it could plug enough to the point where the engine won't run.

When an engine is cold, more soot is produced. Thus, operating in cold weather at middle to lower RPM ranges where the engine never fully warms up produces more soot. Idling produces more soot.

The tractor's ECU monitors two basic sensors to determine how full the DPF is: an upstream pressure sensor and a downstream pressure sensor. On a perfectly clean DPF, there is essentially no difference in pressure between the sensors. As soot builds, there begins to be more pressure from the upstream sensor than the downstream. Once a certain differential in pressure (delta) is met, the ECU triggers a "regen." During this process, additional diesel fuel is injected just before the exhaust stroke from the fuel injectors. This fuel will not combust since it is not subject to a compression stroke. Instead, it flows down the exhaust manifold and into the DPF, which also contains something called a diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC). The DOC will oxidize the diesel fuel into heat. The extreme heat created burns off the trapped soot particles, cleaning (regenerating) the filter. This process lasts anywhere from 15-20 minutes or so, roughly. During this time, the engine might sound slightly different and there might be slightly less engine power.

Note that there are a couple of other parameters built into the ECU to control regens. First off, there is an "engine timer" which keeps track of how many hours it has been since the last regen, and compares this to the DPF pressure delta. There is a general curve of "expected values" built into the ECU which means the pressure differential should resemble an expected value for a given amount of engine run time. This acts as a method to detect a "fault" with the pressure sensors, and also makes it harder to "fool" the ECU. (Someone might use resistors to generate equal pressure and simply remove the DPF and install a straight-pipe...the tractor would never initiate a regen). I'm not sure about Kubota, but many DPF-equipped diesels also include a pre-programmed regen interval...every so many hours (or miles) an active regen commences, and quickly finishes. This ensures everything is working, and also verifies the delta pressure differential actually changes downward.

Hope that helps. It is a fairly complex emissions system. All these pickups that you hear about people "deleting" are running tuners which prevent the truck from ever running a regen; however they use standardized ECU connectivity and structure, most of which is published info and so the aftermarket is able to tap into that. Tractor ECUs are proprietary.

 

[Manpedal]

Here's my take on the emissions scandal ... if it was really about lowering emissions all the military vehicles would have those systems on them. They don't... good for thee not for me. They know it's a hazard & could leave our soldiers at risk if broken down while at war. Just like hospitals with 21 out of 24 ambulances with the 6.0 or 6.4 out of service for emissions issues. Patients died on side of the road, hospitals were sued, Ford was sued, International was sued ... and the epa laughed & continued with more stringent emission laws. Fun fact ... cattle & hog farms in the US produce more emissions damaging to air pollution than all vehicles produced since 1920s ... large scale beef production is a real issue but is overlooked b/c of $$$ & lobbyists. Someone said show me how to follow the money ... well follow that trail & you'll find how corrupt the FDA & EPA really are.

 

[Manpedal]

And just to be clear, I'm all about cleaner air ... these systems 100% are effective in giving clean emissions from a dirty petrol burning engine ... the problem everyone has is they are badly engineered b/c it 100% lessens the fuel mileage, longevity & reliability of the equipment whether truck, car or offroad. I've seen the inside of a 2020 F350 at 20k miles & the soot buildup is a 1/4 thick on the intake & turbo looks terrible. At 100k miles they regularly have leaking turbos, clogged egrs, & worn out internals b/c of the 33% increase in egr & increase in heat. At an average 75k price tag for a new diesel light duty pickup ... this lifespan & repair schedule is unacceptable. Warranties mean nothing to a fleet company that will have lost revenue from downtime. The new 3.0 L duramax is the only system that I've seen a vast improvement in ... i bought a new 2022 yukon xl with it. But everything else needs a serious improvement... & until then, stop ripping into people that delete their equipment... it's their hard earned money investment not yours.

 

[hagrid]

Here's my take on the emissions scandal ... if it was really about lowering emissions all the military vehicles would have those systems on them. They don't... good for thee not for me. They know it's a hazard & could leave our soldiers at risk if broken down while at war. Just like hospitals with 21 out of 24 ambulances with the 6.0 or 6.4 out of service for emissions issues. Patients died on side of the road, hospitals were sued, Ford was sued, International was sued ... and the epa laughed & continued with more stringent emission laws. Fun fact ... cattle & hog farms in the US produce more emissions damaging to air pollution than all vehicles produced since 1920s ... large scale beef production is a real issue but is overlooked b/c of $$$ & lobbyists. Someone said show me how to follow the money ... well follow that trail & you'll find how corrupt the FDA & EPA really are.

Except you can't turn an ICE into a delicious burger like you can with a cow.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Get rid of California making EPA rules ( not laws..) and the DPF krap goes away, the sun will still shine and all ,except for a few ,very few will be happy.
The underlying problem is that the DPF 'system' wasn't properly designed for actual operation conditions BEFORE the tractors were sold.
Can you 'get around' the DPF problem ? Sure, just have to 'reverse engineer' the computer program and delete or edit the code that reads sensors,does 'math' and controls the engine operation. The concept is easy, the execution is the difficult but NOT impossible,it just takes time and money.BTDT several times, years ago.
Can a tractor owner do it? Not really, unless you've got decades of microcomputer design/build as a 'hat', as well as 2 or 3 tractors for R&D use and a few 'tools of the trade'. The big hurdle is reading the program. Most are 'read protected' BUT if the computer code can be updated, it is possible to 'get in'.

 

[D2Cat]

Here's my take on the emissions scandal ... if it was really about lowering emissions all the military vehicles would have those systems on them. They don't... good for thee not for me. They know it's a hazard & could leave our soldiers at risk if broken down while at war. Just like hospitals with 21 out of 24 ambulances with the 6.0 or 6.4 out of service for emissions issues. Patients died on side of the road, hospitals were sued, Ford was sued, International was sued ... and the epa laughed & continued with more stringent emission laws. Fun fact ... cattle & hog farms in the US produce more emissions damaging to air pollution than all vehicles produced since 1920s ... large scale beef production is a real issue but is overlooked b/c of $$$ & lobbyists. Someone said show me how to follow the money ... well follow that trail & you'll find how corrupt the FDA & EPA really are.

Let's see a link to that "fact", and see where and who originated it. I need convenienced.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Get rid of California

You could have just left it at that.

 

[Tx Jim]

Here's something that I saw on another tractor site that may someday affect deleted vehicles value & owners legal responsibility. I've always wondered how if mileage is significantly increased with a "delete" how the "significantly increased mileage" isn't better for everyone concerned.

Illegal 'Deleted' Ram Diesel Owner Wants It Crushed Rather Than Comply

The owner of this diesel defeat Ram 2500 pickup had a choice between compliance or crushing. He chose crushing.

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[whitetiger]

stop ripping into people that delete their equipment... it's their hard earned money investment not yours.

To start with, it is against Federal Law to tamper with, modify or remove emission control systems.
Once they have been tampered with, you lose manufacture/dealer support and a dealer can not legally trade for or sell it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Big 'red flag' is that you need the seller to get valid 'emissions test' BEFORE buying anything today.....
That RAM diesel owner KNEW it'd been tampered with,can't feel sorry for him.

 

[jimh406]

Big 'red flag' is that you need the seller to get valid 'emissions test' BEFORE buying anything today.....

Not in a lot of states. 2008 and above diesels are exempt from emission tests "if" they even test. My state has no tests at all.

That being said, I don't blame the customer. It is clear the regulations were pushed in before the manufacturers were capable of producing Diesel engines that were reliable with DPFs. As a result, many people chose to remove the equipment to have reliable trucks.

 

[Fordtech86]

As a result, many people chose to remove the equipment to have reliable trucks.

even the government did on tax payer owned vehicles with tax payer dollars

at least that’s what a good friend says that deals with them everyday

 

[jimh406]

even the government did on tax payer owned vehicles with tax payer dollars

at least that’s what a good friend says that deals with them everyday

I know. Apparently, the federal government trucks don't have harmful emissions. They leave that to the politicians.

 

[armylifer]

My 2007.5 Silverado has gone into limp mode over some emissions related DPF regen problem when towing my travel trailer in the mountains. I have to carry a code reader on board to clear the codes so I can get to someplace safe. It has happened to me at least three times in the last 10 years. I know trucks that are newer than mine which have the DEF experience problems more frequently than mine does. The whole emissions system started as a band aide and never progressed beyond that.

 

[Fordtech86]

Never had an emission related issue on my 6.0

 

[armylifer]

Never had an emission related issue on my 6.0

Must be a pre-2007

 

[Fordtech86]

Must be a pre-2007

2005