Weak Starting

[NHSleddog]

I bought the B2650 new in Nov. 2019. I turns over slow. It starts right up, but turns over slow.

I pulled the battery and checked it out (date code was 2 years old) Voltage was at 12.8. I took it to an auto parts store to replace and the guy said lets throw yours on the tester. It tested good.

I still wanted to eliminate the battery as the culprit so I purchased a new AGM for it while I was there. I also kept my original.

The new battery measured 12.4 when I got it home and after a trickle through the night it was 12.9/13.

Put the new battery in and the same slow turn over persists.

What would be the main culprit here? The connection to the starter? They are tight is about all I can say about them.

Any ideas?

 

[85Hokie]

I bought the B2650 in Nov. 2019. I turns over slow. It starts right up, but turns over slow.

I pulled the battery and checked it out (date code was 2 years old) Voltage was at 12.8. I took it to an auto parts store to replace and the guy said lets throw yours on the tester. It tested good.

I still wanted to eliminate the battery as the culprit so I purchased a new AGM for it while I was there. I also kept my original.

The new battery measured 12.4 when I got it home and after a trickle through the night it was 12.9/13.

Put the new battery in and the same slow turn over persists.

What would be the main culprit here? The connection to the starter? They are tight is about all I can say about them.

Any ideas?

Since this happened from your day one - the problem is still there from when you acquired it.

Since the cables to the battery ends are assumed good - I would trace the ground FROM the battery to the frame or where ever it terminates. Take that lead off and clean and replace.

Did you remove the hot side to the starter ? Or just tighten? Might want to pull apart and clean that too.

Another thought is the breakdown of the wires with corrosion that occur inside the ends of each connector, outside may be bright and tight but inside were the wire meets the copper bus may be making a poor connection.

And last - maybe the starter is dragging - rare but no unheard of happening.

I would almost replace those two main wires first with something temporary to eliminate the wire itself then I would move towards the starter itself.

I cannot image the engine has soooo much compression that it is too hard to turn over!!

I had a Ford Torino that drove me crazy for over 2 months ...... started fine but output of voltage to battery was almost 17 volts.....(replaced the battery, voltage regulator) it all came back the ground cable being chaffed where I could not see it easily...... I piece of coat hanger actually got me home!

 

[D2Cat]

85Hokie, you're fortunate. Most of the coat hangers now are not condusive to conducting electricity!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re:

Since the cables to the battery ends are assumed good -

THAT is a huge assumption !!!

Really, I don't know how old the tractor is, though bought in 2019, was it used( I'll assume so). How many hours on the clock ??

Quick test, use a battery jumper cable and go directly from battery +ve to starter motor +ve, see how it spins... if fast... you HAVE bad battery cable and/or bad starter relay.

 

[85Hokie]

85Hokie, you're fortunate. Most of the coat hangers now are not condusive to conducting electricity!

yeah.... that was 1984 when it happened .... and YES I had to search for a one that did not have the cardboard tube at the bottom!!!

 

[NHSleddog]

I purchased it new. It currently has about 320hrs.

No corrosion I can see anywhere (I wash/inspect after most jobs) the tractor still looks new.

I will recheck the connections (I did upgrade from the dyno to an alternator at 50hrs or so).

But really, it has been weak from the beginning.

I know if it sits a few days it is more noticeable. That is what prompted the battery replacement. I checked for any parasitic drain and it was drawing 3mv. If I unplug my clock it is 0-1mv.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I purchased it new. It currently has about 320hrs.

No corrosion I can see anywhere (I wash/inspect after most jobs) the tractor still looks new.

I will recheck the connections (I did upgrade from the dyno to an alternator at 50hrs or so).

But really, it has been weak from the beginning.

I know if it sits a few days it is more noticeable. That is what prompted the battery replacement. I checked for any parasitic drain and it was drawing 3mv. If I unplug my clock it is 0-1mv.

Unplug clock? Aftermarket?

 

[NHSleddog]

Unplug clock? Aftermarket?

 

[85Hokie]

View attachment 49206

Very nice = I am not sure which of the three pieces of data are more important..... but I'll take one! Where did you find?

 

[Tornado]

I would do some poking around with a multimeter. What sort of voltage are you seeing at the starter for example? Being slow to turn over, and being more noticeable after sitting a while, really suggests to me its a drop in voltage/current along the line somewhere. Id see if I could poke around with multi meter and find something that didn't look just right. I doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know though. If its been doing it since hour 1 on the machine I would really wonder if its a bad/loose connection somewhere, or a broken wire hiding behind the insulation. You could also try to get a voltage read on the battery when the tractor is turned over - see if the voltage drops as it should when the start hits, or if the drop seems a little too shallow.

Let us know when you find out the cause, Im curious.

 

[BAP]

Most starters ground by bolting to the engine block. Not uncommon for them to get rusty between mating surface or have been painted at the factory causing poor ground and slow starting. Easiest way to eliminate is to run a ground wire from battery to starter mounting bolt.

 

[Henro]

I bought the B2650 new in Nov. 2019. I turns over slow. It starts right up, but turns over slow.

(snip)

Any ideas?

After digesting your issue over the last few days, I now wonder if you really have a problem, or if your expectations of turn over speed are too high.

If it always starts right up, what is the root problem? The tractor or the operator expectations? Not trying to be a smart a$$, just a thought...

 

[NHSleddog]

Very nice = I am not sure which of the three pieces of data are more important..... but I'll take one! Where did you find?

Amazon.com

FYI - it is a 24hr only clock. The voltage is right on the money. The temp seems right, I didn't test it.

 

[NHSleddog]

After digesting your issue over the last few days, I now wonder if you really have a problem, or if your expectations of turn over speed are too high.

If it always starts right up, what is the root problem? The tractor or the operator expectations? Not trying to be a smart a$$, just a thought...

Maybe you were thinking of someone else, I just posted this today. There was a time last winter it needed a jump but it was very cold at the time. Also it is just something you know. If you have good hearing and good rhythm over any time you should really have a "feel" for your engine.

I don't think it is my "expectations" as I have none in this regard. It simply turns over weak. I have worked with equipment since I was a kid. I got my CDL at 18. I have owned and driven something diesel since I was a kid, so 30 years experience anyway. I could be wrong, is there a specific rating (RPM) it should turn over at? This is something I can easily check/test. That would be the easiest way to definitively say it was in or out of spec.

Also, is there an easy way to safely shut off the fuel supply on this model so it won't start up? That would help with the troubleshooting for sure.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Hopefully someone with the same tractor model and year will reply. As it starts, I don't see an issue, it could have a gear reduction starter. 60s Chryslers had them ( and left threded studs...)

 

[Tornado]

There was a time last winter it needed a jump but it was very cold at the time.

Even in the cold, this is a brand new tractor. You bought it brand new in November, then just a couple months later were already jumping it off to get it to start. I wouldn't expect to have to jump a new battery off that quickly. Did you check the battery voltage in that instance? I am leaning toward there being an actual problem. May be minor but having to jump it off so soon after purchase is more evidence of something not quite right. Im surprised you didnt check the battery, see it was good, then contact the dealer in that instance. Keep us updated

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, less than a year old, surely there's a warranty ??

 

[RCW]

‘Dog it doesn’t sound right, especially with the new AGM not changing circumstances.

As far as keeping it from starting, stop solenoids operate differently. My BX is in open position 10 seconds after shutdown. Some open with key.

I think you might be able to keep fuel off there to avoid a start.

Others came up with most of my thoughts, and they’re much more savvy than I am. .

The only thing I don’t believe I’ve seen is do you think it’s worth pulling the starter just to bench test it? Maybe bearing/bushing, etc/heavy draw?

I say that after just rebuilding a 70 year old starter myself.....

Good luck, wishing I had better advice.

 

[200mph]

If you want to check the starting electrical circuit I would suggest doing a "voltage drop test" involving both + and - cables.

Static voltage readings can mask a problem while this dynamic test will uncover problems.

Use your favorite search engine to find articles or videos on how to perform a voltage drop test.

Having said all this and if under warranty it should be Kubota's problem to resolve.

 

[BruceP]

A lot of good advice above.

From a logical troubleshooting perspective there is ONE test you should be able to do to determine if battery and cables are OK.

Connect voltmeter as follows (I prefer to use clips)
*) Black lead clipped to STARTER CASE.
*) Red lead clipped to large +12 on starter.

You should now be reading the battery voltage. (take note of it)

While watching the meter, CRANK THE ENGINE.

1) If the voltmeter drops below 10v DURING CRANKING, there is a problem with battery/wiring.
2) If the voltmeter does not drop below 10v... you can assume the issue is NOT in the battery/wiring.

Let us know the results of this simple test... we can help logically isolate the issue from there.