B8200 suction line issues?

[Kmuz700]

Well, been having hydraulic issues with the old 8200...I believe ive got it narrowed down to the suction line getting air in, but want to run this by and see if it makes sense...

Basically the hydros for the FEL have always been kinda slow to respond, and seems like they always get air in them. Sometimes it looses its prime entirely and doesnt work at all, also had been burping fluid from the shifter boot. So my dad goes and replaces the torn shift boot thinking it was just from the gears slinging oil out. But after that noticed that when running, there is pressure building in the trans/hydro sump, to the point the boot gets inflated lol...eventually it pushes out foamed up fluid from the vent on the rear of the trans. BUT, while pressure is built up in the trans, the hydros work better than ever. They're fast and respond instantly. All i can think is that the pump is constantly sucking in air, and whipping the fluid until it overflows. As soon as i relieve the air pressure from the sump and fire it back up, the hydros go back to working crappy.

Now if that makes sense, im gonna go ahead and replace all the o-rings on the banjo fittings and replaced the short section of hose on the line, and hopefully that works. My only other question is if someone knows the size of the o-rings and hose i need...the tractor is at dads house so i cant just pull em off right now. But id like to pick them up before headed there. Assuming they are metric o-rings? hopefully napa or tractor supply will have them.

 

[Silver Wings]

Re: B200 suction line issues?

That sounds like sucking air to me, but I'll add another possibility. I got help here a couple years ago when my little B21 had similar symptoms, after changing out the suction inlet hose those symptoms disappeared...for a while. 6 months later it was doing the same thing...loss of prime after sitting for a day in cold weather, foaming of hydro oil, loss of lift capacity. I rechecked all connections on the suction side of the pump and got nowhere. Then I got a new symptom...a small amount of engine oil loss over the course of maybe 20 hours, coupled with a new, dark tint to the hydro oil. Bingo!...shaft seal on the hydraulic pump. I'm sure the seal was the cause of these symptoms long before it started passing oil, but it was only passing air at that time. $8 part from Messick's, an hour or so to change it and problem solved. Go ahead and start with the obvious, but keep this in mind.

 

[Kmuz700]

Re: B200 suction line issues?

That sounds like sucking air to me, but I'll add another possibility. I got help here a couple years ago when my little B21 had similar symptoms, after changing out the suction inlet hose those symptoms disappeared...for a while. 6 months later it was doing the same thing...loss of prime after sitting for a day in cold weather, foaming of hydro oil, loss of lift capacity. I rechecked all connections on the suction side of the pump and got nowhere. Then I got a new symptom...a small amount of engine oil loss over the course of maybe 20 hours, coupled with a new, dark tint to the hydro oil. Bingo!...shaft seal on the hydraulic pump. I'm sure the seal was the cause of these symptoms long before it started passing oil, but it was only passing air at that time. $8 part from Messick's, an hour or so to change it and problem solved. Go ahead and start with the obvious, but keep this in mind.

That's definitely something to keep in mind! This tractor does seem to consume oil, but i figured it was burning it...i would have thought for sure that when the pump seals fail, they leak hydraulic fluid into the engine, not the other way around. The hydro oil is pretty clean now, it was very milky and nasty when we first purchased this tractor in january. so its been flushed a couple times, and the engine oil is still clean, but ive noticed that its used at least a quart of oil a few times since then.

 

[Silver Wings]

Re: B200 suction line issues?

That's definitely something to keep in mind! This tractor does seem to consume oil, but i figured it was burning it...i would have thought for sure that when the pump seals fail, they leak hydraulic fluid into the engine, not the other way around. The hydro oil is pretty clean now, it was very milky and nasty when we first purchased this tractor in january. so its been flushed a couple times, and the engine oil is still clean, but ive noticed that its used at least a quart of oil a few times since then.

I believe that I read on here that oil can go either way. Don't quote me, but I seem to remember someone having the engine oil sump filling with hydro fluid. If your engine oil is still fairly clean it might be hard to see a quart of it in the hydraulic reservoir, especially since it holds so much more fluid. My engine oil was black and hyrdo oil was fairly fresh and clean, so it was easy to see a half quart of engine oil in it. Don't know how quick a job it would be on your 8200, but it will be cheap if you can do it yourself.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Water in the hydraulic fluid can cause a lot of issues too.

 

[Kmuz700]

Water in the hydraulic fluid can cause a lot of issues too.

already took care of that in january, fluid was very contaminated when we got the tractor, first thing was to flush it...good and clean now!

 

[whitetiger]

already took care of that in january, fluid was very contaminated when we got the tractor, first thing was to flush it...good and clean now!

Did you clean the suction screen and replace the filter also?

 

[Kmuz700]

Did you clean the suction screen and replace the filter also?

Yep, brand new screen...also all new cylinder seals and hydraulic hoses, and the spool valve was rebuilt...only thing i havent done is the suction line o-rings or the flexible section.

 

[Kmuz700]

Yep, brand new screen...also all new cylinder seals and hydraulic hoses, and the spool valve was rebuilt...only thing i havent done is the suction line o-rings or the flexible section.

Also if someone knows what size the banjo o-rings and suction hose are, that would be great, I’d like to pick them up before I go back to work on it.

 

[Kmuz700]

Re: B200 suction line issues?

ended up just ordering the o-rings from Messicks, should be here in a couple days...If i remember, i will measure them up and update post so anyone can find generic ones locally if they need to.

 

[Kmuz700]

welp, doing the suction line o-rings, hose and clamps didnt fix it, inspected hard lines for cracks too...still doing the same thing, trouble holding prime, lots of air/foam and building pressure in the transmission/puking fluid out...I guess its gotta be the pump shaft seal? Only thing left that could be on the suction side of the system...the hydro oil was also black like it is sucking in engine oil...ordered more seals from messicks today. IF it is the shaft seal, i cant say ive ever seen one cause this issue, usually they just start leaking hydro fluid into the engine.

 

[Kmuz700]

Got it. Hydro pump seal was definitely shot, replaced it and hydros work like a dream now...lesson learned, a bad pump seal will not always leak into the crankcase! Lol oh and getting the pump off was fun! lol.


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[Donystoy]

Got it. Hydro pump seal was definitely shot, replaced it and hydros work like a dream now...lesson learned, a bad pump seal will not always leak into the crankcase! Lol oh and getting the pump off was fun! lol.


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When you say hydro pump seal are you talking about the seal from the pump to suction line? I had the shaft seal go on mine six years ago which filled the crankcase with hydraulic oil. Ended up replacing the pump.

 

[whitetiger]

When you say hydro pump seal are you talking about the seal from the pump to suction line? I had the shaft seal go on mine six years ago which filled the crankcase with hydraulic oil. Ended up replacing the pump.

He is talking about the hydraulic pump, not the hydrostat pump.

 

[Kmuz700]

When you say hydro pump seal are you talking about the seal from the pump to suction line? I had the shaft seal go on mine six years ago which filled the crankcase with hydraulic oil. Ended up replacing the pump.

The shaft seal on the engine side of the pump...took 2 seconds to replace that seal once the pump was off the engine.


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[Donystoy]

The shaft seal on the engine side of the pump...took 2 seconds to replace that seal once the pump was off the engine.


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Sounds like it was the same seal as mine. I opted to change the entire pump as the shaft end was extremely worn.

 

[Kmuz700]

Sounds like it was the same seal as mine. I opted to change the entire pump as the shaft end was extremely worn.

Thankfully the shaft looked ok, I was concerned about that when I went to change it...the seal was actually blown out, not just worn. I suspect that was from the previous owner, who blew a hydraulic line for the FEL, then proceeded to use compressed air to get the bucket to lift so he could move the tractor around. He probably over-pressurized the sump and wrecked the seal. We’ve been chasing down hydraulic issues since we got it, and making improvements with each fix, but glad that the real issue was a $3 pump seal.


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[Donystoy]

Thankfully the shaft looked ok, I was concerned about that when I went to change it...the seal was actually blown out, not just worn. I suspect that was from the previous owner, who blew a hydraulic line for the FEL, then proceeded to use compressed air to get the bucket to lift so he could move the tractor around. He probably over-pressurized the sump and wrecked the seal. We’ve been chasing down hydraulic issues since we got it, and making improvements with each fix, but glad that the real issue was a $3 pump seal.

I wish the manufacturer had used a different method of coupling on this pump. The other half that the pump joins to on mine is also well worn. I have been concerned since and think that one day I will lose all hydraulics. I have done a ton of loader work over the years which certainly has added to the wear. I have always wanted to add a second pump to the front of the engine dedicated to the fel and bh but wanted to do it in conjunction with a cab. Other stuff has always gotten the way.