l185 won't start and water in oil

[patrick]

After looking in to unit further I found about 2 quarts of water in engine
oil. So I barrowed a pressure tester and found pressure fell from 15psig
to 7 psig with in about 15 minutes. Based on video review I think i have
a blown head gasket. Any one had to replace head gasket before? Is
a head gasket kit available. After replacing gasket How do I need to flush engine? Hey Vic you say it not uncommon for head gasket problems on kabota tractors. Why is that?

 

[aquaforce]

You will be lucky if it is a head gasket but I doubt it very much!!!


Sorry but this is bad news. Most likely the head is cracked and you will need a new one. The Kubota head gaskets are very thick .145 and it is not common for the gasket to blow. Heat build up will crack the head in the firing groove and this will leak coolant into the cylinder and can also leak down into the oil from there.

How do I know Well my L175 cracked the head in both chambers down both sides of each firing groove. That is a total of four cracks.

This happened before I bought the tractor and I reaped the whirl wind of problems.

See my thread "Dry Liner removal..." http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=434 I have replaced the head and a ton of other things to make this engine like new.

 

[aquaforce]

OH I COMPLETELY FORGOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



It won't start because it can't get fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a small square cover on the side of the injector pump housing. Something like 2"X2" or maybe 1 1/2"X 1 1/2"...... anyway, take the four screws out of the cover and remove the cover to expose the fuel control rack.
You will have to move the small round pin back and forth with a screw driver. The pin may be hard to move at first but it must move toward the front of the engine to open the fuel rack in the pump.
Shoot some oil and maybe some penetrant in the area of the small round pin to try and free it up as you move it back and forth.
It is stuck in the fuel off position because moisture condensed in the fuel rack due to water in the crankcase. The vapor/draft tube exit's around the corner from the rack cover on the back of the injector pump housing and as the vapors from the engine rise to the draft tube it will rust the injector fuel control rail and make it stick closed.


Sorry for the bad news but it doesn't get any better unless you fix it

 

[Ob1kubota]

Patrick.... aqua is king of rebuilds and he does it right,I second his breakdown on why your rack is stuck. Once coolant get into your fuel system it oxidates metal to metal parts and this utra low sulfer fuel has absolutely not lubricity to help free stuck parts. Put the fish oil to her! ( WD40) Let us know what you get into Patrick we can help....

 

[patrick]

Re: l185 won't start and water in oil and more problems

Well I pulled the head and no blown gasket. Plenty of water on top of pistons
when the head was removed More on front cylinder than back. Looked
for a crack but could not find any by naked eye. Can you usually see cracks? I brought the head to machine shop and tech said he did not see sign of water in head. He wanted 60.00 to pressure ckeck head and 80.00 to magnaflux head. Is the reasonable? Or is my water/oil leak somewhere else possible somewhere else?

 

[osut362]

i may be wrong, but doesn't the 2 cyl engines have a freeze plug behind the gear case on the front? if so, and leaking, wouldn't it get water into the crankcase via the gearcase?....al

 

[aquaforce]

Re: l185 won't start and water in oil and more problems

Well I pulled the head and no blown gasket. Plenty of water on top of pistons
when the head was removed More on front cylinder than back. Looked
for a crack but could not find any by naked eye. Can you usually see cracks? I brought the head to machine shop and tech said he did not see sign of water in head. He wanted 60.00 to pressure ckeck head and 80.00 to magnaflux head. Is the reasonable? Or is my water/oil leak somewhere else possible somewhere else?

The cracks may range from obvious to only noticeable by magnaflux. If water was getting on top of the pistons I can only think (at this time) of the cyl head as a source. The grooves leading from the fire chamber is where my head was cracked. Scratching around in the grooves exposed the cracks because I didn't see them at first. Also scratching around the valves with a flat screw driver may show a crack in or near the valve seats.

To list the procedures in the order I would recommend is magnaflux first. If that shows nothing then pressure check. Usually magnaflux is used to find what otherwise could not be found. Use this first and then back up to pressure. The pressure can find a leak in an area where magnaflux can not reach for the test.

In a budget approach the pressure test may show all that is needed and you would only be out $60.


Those valve springs are very weak. Only 26 lbs at the install height. After tapping on the edge of the spring caps you can take the keepers out using a magnet and remove the valves by hand. I bet the valve seats would show the cracks. If water was getting in through the head then I would expect a visible crack.


The block plug that osut362 mentioned is shown in the pics of my previously mentioned thread. Yes that plug is behind the gear cover and into the coolant jacket but that would dump water straight into the oil. I don't know a way for that source to get the water on top of the piston unless the crank case was completely full and there was no air void. That condition could hydro the water up past the rings on top of the pistons.

 

[osut362]

"Plenty of water on top of pistons"
i missed that part.....al

 

[Ob1kubota]

Re: l185 won't start and water in oil and more problems

Patrick .....

"To list the procedures in the order I would recommend is magnaflux first. If that shows nothing then pressure check. Usually magnaflux is used to find what otherwise could not be found. Use this first and then back up to pressure. The pressure can find a leak in an area where magnaflux can not reach for the test. In a budget approach the pressure test may show all that is needed and you would only be out $60. "

I absolutely Second this and with water standing on the pistons it's a big crack and magnaflux is a non-destructive test that will be worth the expense to find the crack. The repair is what you need to post because there are a lot of options out there and I like to read every procedure start to finish.

 

[dwhiteboy67]

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Patrick,
I have the same tractor and I'm having the same problem's with water in my oil. The front cylinder has water on top of the piston and the back has oil on it. Don't know if I have any ring problem's or not yet, but when I send the head too the shop to have it checked out I'll start breaking down the piston's too see what's going on with it. It also seems that if there is water or oil on top of the cylinder, front or back, then that would cause trouble starting any tractor. Any help would be great being you have the same trouble I'm having.

 

[aquaforce]

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Patrick,
I have the same tractor and I'm having the same problem's with water in my oil. The front cylinder has water on top of the piston and the back has oil on it. Don't know if I have any ring problem's or not yet, but when I send the head too the shop to have it checked out I'll start breaking down the piston's too see what's going on with it. It also seems that if there is water or oil on top of the cylinder, front or back, then that would cause trouble starting any tractor. Any help would be great being you have the same trouble I'm having.

My guess is that your head gasket is toast and when you get the head off you should have it checked for cracks. The front cyl usually gets the worst part of the deal with this "perk" "thermal differention" "thermo siphon" cooling system that is designed for WATER ONLY!!! As Svc VIC stated, this system "uses" water and it literally has to be constantly topped off. If not the usual result is the front portion of the head runs dry first. That is when they crack also. You could also have a crack in the front cyl and the rear could be getting the oil from the head gasket, if there is not any other mechanical damage. The head gasket seals the oil passage around the restrictor in the block deck which is very close to the rear piston. If the head gasket fails then oil pressure can shoot through to the rear piston. The rated oil pressure on that engine is 64psi at over 4gpm. That is huge pressure and volume!!!!!!!!


I am almost ready to start my engine up after a total rebuild due to this exact problem. This whole experience has taught me a lot about a system I never knew existed.

 

[dwhiteboy67]

I am almost ready to start my engine up after a total rebuild due to this exact problem. QUOTE]

Thanks for the info, I've pulled the head off too find out that the gasket is saturated with oil on the bottom side and it's like backed into the gasket. I'm hoping that there is little damage as possible too the head, have yet too send it too the shop. My plans are too rebuild this engine so any advice would be helpful and any info on parts would be great. I found the glow plugs way less than normal price on one of the parts sites vic has on his web page, almost half the cost than other sites.

 

[aquaforce]

I got my engine parts at Kubota Industrial Engines group. The name of the state contact can vary but this web site will give your contact for the region that you are in. The prices are less than half of what I could find anywhere else and all genuine Kubota, no aftermarket stuff.

http://www.kubotaengine.com/index.html



Since your in AL, your region is the same as mine here in GA, so check this site too. http://www.enginepowersource.com/

 

[patrick]

Well I had the head checked and sure enough it is cracked beyond repair
At this point not sure what to do Purchase new bare head or find a used one
Also do i go further into the motor for rings and bearing ? any help would be great.

 

[aquaforce]

Well I had the head checked and sure enough it is cracked beyond repair
At this point not sure what to do Purchase new bare head or find a used one
Also do i go further into the motor for rings and bearing ? any help would be great.

Most of these used heads are in the same condition due to overheating, which is so very common on this engine. A friend of mine had a head repaired on a "Z" engine in a "B" tractor but it broke again later and it never got overheated.

I got a brand new head off ebay from a guy in Canada. If you don't find it on ebay I can get the contact. He had 7 of these heads left about a month ago. It was $560 and came with seats and guides. This is pretty much your only option because I have some good sources and they could not get this head and Kubota has already discontinued it.

The rings and other parts depend on how it ran and started. Did it start normally or did it take a lot of glow plug time and heavy throttle? If it started normally then the compression is ok and a head could fix it good. If there is any pitting in the bore from water getting in there then rings and liners at the very least. Pistons if they got scored from heat.

If the tractor has a lot of time on it then it might be best to pull it down and do a full build on it. That would make it new and ready for many years of service.

In post #14 I listed a site to get parts from. They are genuine Kubota and super prices. A total kit for your engine is about $717. Everywhere else I priced these parts was over $1850

 

[patrick]

If I replace my head on my l185 can a extrenal temp guage be add
and if so where and what temp should it run. i realize it has a whistle.
Can whistle go bad and can it be tested?

 

[aquaforce]

If I replace my head on my l185 can a extrenal temp guage be add
and if so where and what temp should it run. i realize it has a whistle.
Can whistle go bad and can it be tested?

Here is a pic of what I'm doing on my L175 for a temp guage. This is a "temp kit" from Auto Meter and I'm using a "shorty" sender in the front head cover. Pic following too.

This water cooling system was intended for use with "WATER" only and cannot benefit from antifreeze!!!!!
A chemical "wetter" can be used in the water to dissipate heat much faster but antifreeze RAISES the boiling point which also slows the circulation of water. As the temp raises the head is getting pretty hot since the exhaust is also run through the coolant jacket to speed circulation.
With water only the tractor will run very stable at 212° since that is the boiling point of water. The water will be circulating as fast as you see water moving in a pan of boiling water.
The stupid screamer will not work with anything other than water!!!!!!!!!!! It is basically useless to me. If enough steam could be made for it to work with antifreeze then of course the engine has already gotten damaged, which is what happens with most failures.

I don't know exactly what temps it would run at with antifreeze but since it boils in the range of 230° it is possible that 240° could be reached with slow circulation. This is pure speculation from a trained person. I am going to log temps on my engine when it is running to find out what is going on.

Wetter made by Redline can also be used with WATER and it is supposed to dissepate heate 30% better. I have som wetter that I am also going to try and log the temps.


What I expect to do on my tractor is use an electric inline circulation pump, at the lower radiator hose and control it with a relay on a temp switch. This way the pump would run to cool and shut off to warm up.

 

[dwhiteboy67]

patric, here is a site that I found with a complete diagram on almost any kubato tractor.http://www.messicks.com/Kubota/L185F.aspx I've also checked my local dealer to find the head for less than $600.00 bare. I have yet to have my head looked at.

 

[dwhiteboy67]

Patrick, when you find out the torqe specs on the head and rocker arms I would appreciate the info if you would post them on your page. I have yet too find this out being I'm behind on this project and maybe I want have too rebuild this tractor from scrach. New rings and bearings mean food from my family and I don't want too go that far if I don't have too. But I'm stuck with this no matter what and It would be helpful to get this tractor going again so I can do the work needed on my property. I have 5.5 acrs to work opn and I'm really needing to repair this tractor.

 

[aquaforce]

patrick


What did you decide to do on this tractor????