B3350 DPF Regen problems

[NEPA Guy]

Since I appear to be limited to 5 picture uploads I had to upload them to the bogus google account I created a few weeks back for my other issue. Please see link for referenced photos. (slightly out of order)

https://goo.gl/photos/ghezUG3QSoj8Q3by6

According to my original dealer, before delivery, the tractor had to be held for a few more days to install the latest firmware upgrade

Ambient temperature starting the tractor was 48 F. It is noted that while keeping the throttle at half speed prior to turning the key, I need to use the glow plugs for about 10 seconds in order for the machine to turn over. Then auto regeneration mode button pressed. (according to original dealer instructions)

17.5 -18.5 hours. Im still getting used to the machine, testing its limits on hills and turns. I was driving the tractor around my property in L, running at full throttle, for about an hour, 2WD.

18.5 hours. The regeneration light begins to flash. (According to original dealer his instructions were to raise the rpm until the light stopped flashing in order to satisfy regeneration requirements and it would become solid and the regeneration process would begin and I would be able to use the tractor normally.)

The light does not stop flashing even though at 2500 rpm's. I decide to park the machine and review the manual I paid extra for, and downloaded (6C430-63132) (original dealer still hasn't delivered paper manual 3 weeks later despite multiple complaints) to make sure I'm following the proper steps. Manual is inaccurate.

It is noted on page 13, 14, 17, and 18, although stated, I do not have a DPF inhibit mode nor do I have an inhibit button. (we can only assume this was replaced by the auto dpf button in the latest firmware upgrade that should have addressed the cold start and regen issues that other users have experienced.)

See 14.1 for current dash photo

I continue on to page 15 where It states that in auto mode, PM warning the regeneration indicator turns on.
It did not turn on. Not a solid light as indicated in the manual, if I am interpreting it correctly.

I try to enable the parked regeneration as noted on page 20. No response, parked regeneration button does not light up although I followed instructions to satisfy the requirements in order for it to begin.

Tractor stalls and shuts off.

I start the engine again this time the engine warning indicator starts flashing. I call the original dealer and explain my dilemma. He says to refer to the cheat sheet in the cab. I find the sticker BEHIND me on my left and review. See 20.1

Still no help. Parked regen light still wont activate.

Tractor stalls and shuts off. Now it wont start. It won't turn over at all.

I call the original dealer, he says he will might be able to make it there in a few days to check it out.
(the only reason Im still calling this pos is because he still owes me a missing piece, and needs to fix a broken part, among 3 additional manuals.)

I call my new dealer, he will call me back tomorrow (today) to schedule a pickup asap. Still not wanting to leave my tractor in the middle of one of my fields, I disconnect and reconnect the positive terminal in hopes it will reset the computer and I'll be able to start it.

Voila! It starts up and I drive it to my garage and then the parked regen light and the auto light begin flashing. I follow the instructions to satisfy requirements to get it in parked regen mode and it begins the process. This takes just over an hour to complete. See page 21 where it states 25-35 minutes to complete the process if Im reading it right.

I welcome any corrections or comments in this situation. I am a complete noob. I will get it to the shop asap and post an update once I know anything.



Oh and by the way, just what is normal for gear whine, this thing seems to squeal all the time, except when going downhill, even worse when I was testing out my cruise control. (kind of reminds me of dumb and dumber when Jim Carey makes the most annoying sound in the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cVlTeIATBs My father owned a kubota for many years and I never remember it being so whiney before. (a 20 year old model sold off years ago) It's my only experience with tractors (I was never allowed to drive it growing up), and is the only reason I bought a kubota. I figured if it was good enough for the old man, it would be good enough for me. So far, I have had nothing but a negative experience (most likely original dealer fault) Lackluster training, missing manuals, missing and broken pieces and parts, long wait times. Im sure my new dealer will perform, but still frustrating nonetheless.


Thank you for your insight

 

[CaveCreekRay]

DUDE!

That isn't how your "new ownership" experience is supposed to go! Its obvious your dealer isn't coming out because he doesn't have a damned idea about what your problem is or how he is supposed to solve it. But, he is good at selling tractors!!!

My machine is old school so I can't help with the DPF UN mandated de-spoogeo-barfication process. Thank God for the UN or the hundreds of billions of tractors in the world would have killed us all by now. (ahem)

On the picture limit, just start another post and keep uploading pictures. I have uploaded kaboodles 5 per message...

If your machine is an HST, the trannies make quite a whine. The gear cut on a tractor is not helical. Straight cut teeth are louder as they mesh. Add to that the "shhHHHHH" hyrdaulic pressure sound under load and you have a noisy machine. Home Depot has really nice Howard Leight AM/FM headphones on Christmas special. That is the best way to kill the noise. Try your range lever in M or L. The lower pressure on the HST will make it quieter. I thought mine was about to 'splode the first time I drove it. My Green buddy who drove it said, "That ain't right." My L3800 has nearly twice the pony power his Deere has so his tranny is naturally under much less stress, and is quieter. Despite the noise, Kubota HST's are darn near bulletproof.

Later, when the beast is due a hydraulic service, you can switch over to SUDT synthetic which is supposed to be way quieter.

In the meantime, you need some Kubota support. I would DEMAND your dealer have the regional Kubota Rep call you ASAP. If your dealer drags his feet on that, I'd call Kubota and demand the same. Believe me, Kubota reads these forums and pays attention to what their owners think. Almost no one buys a tractor nowadays without researching owner experience online first. Somebody reading this post might even have the number for the guy in your area. Something in your machine is whacked. You need it fixed.

Good luck, welcome and don't be afraid to vent here!

Keep us tuned as to what is going on.

Ray

 

[Mike9]

Do these new tractors have an OBD2 port? Or at least a USB port?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Your software may be different from mine, but two things might apply. You can't get the tractor to do a parked regen until the particulate levels have passed into "warning level 2" or some similar state. What you did at first should have allowed the normal working regen to occur if the engine was hot enough and the rpm was high enough, unless the dealer told you wrong and pushing the button actually put it into the "inhibit mode" instead of the auto regen mode. Some of the new tractors have it one way and some the other.

The B3350 has had the lion's share of regen problems, that those of us with different models have not had so far, and if your dealer does not fix it, you might think about invoking the lemon law and return it and exchange for a different Kubota. There are some great models available, with and without the dpf filter.

 

[NEPA Guy]

DUDE!

That isn't how your "new ownership" experience is supposed to go! Its obvious your dealer isn't coming out because he doesn't have a damned idea about what your problem is or how he is supposed to solve it. But, he is good at selling tractors!!!

My machine is old school so I can't help with the DPF UN mandated de-spoogeo-barfication process. Thank God for the UN or the hundreds of billions of tractors in the world would have killed us all by now. (ahem)

On the picture limit, just start another post and keep uploading pictures. I have uploaded kaboodles 5 per message...

If your machine is an HST, the trannies make quite a whine. The gear cut on a tractor is not helical. Straight cut teeth are louder as they mesh. Add to that the "shhHHHHH" hyrdaulic pressure sound under load and you have a noisy machine. Home Depot has really nice Howard Leight AM/FM headphones on Christmas special. That is the best way to kill the noise. Try your range lever in M or L. The lower pressure on the HST will make it quieter. I thought mine was about to 'splode the first time I drove it. My Green buddy who drove it said, "That ain't right." My L3800 has nearly twice the pony power his Deere has so his tranny is naturally under much less stress, and is quieter. Despite the noise, Kubota HST's are darn near bulletproof.

Later, when the beast is due a hydraulic service, you can switch over to SUDT synthetic which is supposed to be way quieter.

In the meantime, you need some Kubota support. I would DEMAND your dealer have the regional Kubota Rep call you ASAP. If your dealer drags his feet on that, I'd call Kubota and demand the same. Believe me, Kubota reads these forums and pays attention to what their owners think. Almost no one buys a tractor nowadays without researching owner experience online first. Somebody reading this post might even have the number for the guy in your area. Something in your machine is whacked. You need it fixed.

Good luck, welcome and don't be afraid to vent here!

Keep us tuned as to what is going on.

Ray

Thanks for the reply! Its an HSDC. I read about the thick cut gears and the noise, just never experienced it first hand. Not sure what is and isn't normal. When I checked the transmission fluid it was dangerously low. Thinking that attributed to the squealing, I decided (at 8 hours) to swap the fluid and filter with the UDT2 stuff. No difference in sound after that. Oil was black too, so I changed that as well with the 15w40/filter. I figured to play it safe since the original dealer seemed so irresponsible, I can't trust that everything was properly filled with the proper fluids and checked.

I already bought a 3M NRR 31 set of muffs, it helps alot! In my old age my hearing is starting to go, (losing my high frequency range) so my doc says use the muffs for everything. Thanks for the suggestion. Even with it's still squealish.

The original dealer is impossible to work with. I will call the regional Kubota Rep once I get what's owed to me from that pos (piece of sunshine) and report everything in full. I have a new dealer who is great, just very far. I'll work everything out with him as soon as I get what's owed to me.

If anyone has a number off hand that would great, if not I'll get it off the new dealer when appropriate. Thank you!

 

[NEPA Guy]

Your software may be different from mine, but two things might apply. You can't get the tractor to do a parked regen until the particulate levels have passed into "warning level 2" or some similar state. What you did at first should have allowed the normal working regen to occur if the engine was hot enough and the rpm was high enough, unless the dealer told you wrong and pushing the button actually put it into the "inhibit mode" instead of the auto regen mode. Some of the new tractors have it one way and some the other.

The B3350 has had the lion's share of regen problems, that those of us with different models have not had so far, and if your dealer does not fix it, you might think about invoking the lemon law and return it and exchange for a different Kubota. There are some great models available, with and without the dpf filter.

You're right, I should have been able to regen successfully the first time, I didn't know about the parked regen working only after passing level 2. I guess I don't get why some tractors are one way, and some the other. The manual I downloaded conflicts. Again, I was just told to hit the auto regen button every time it started, which is what I did. Maybe because it was where the inhibit button is, it somehow activated inhibit mode the whole time instead of being in auto like it should have been? I just hope the tractor has a log of sorts that has kept an accurate record of exactly what has happened in order to assist.

I'll keep it mind, I'll see what the new dealer has to say, and if it's an option, get a different one under the lemon law.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Do these new tractors have an OBD2 port? Or at least a USB port?

I don't know. I'm not even going to go there. I'm an IT guy by trade ,in the business for 27 years. Although more than capable to work with systems, I'll let the dealers play with it, it's too unstable, still in beta as far as I'm concerned.

 

[lugbolt]

That system is a reformer type regen system. A total joke. The reformer injects fuel directly into the exhaust stream. It also uses a blower to blow air into the exhaust during regen, combined with the fuel, it raises the exhaust temperature enough to satisfy the requirement to "regenerate".

The little B series engines did not get common rail injection. If they did, it would be a lot less headache. Hence one of the reasons when people ask me about the 3350, I tell them go with a non-dpf "B" or go up into a small L series.

Will it work? Yes. The updated software should help things. Parked regen, the tractor has to be in neutral (all ranges), PTO off, park brake on (and light showing in the dash), A/C preferably off on cabin models. Raise RPM to wide open and it should regen. The manuals state that there is a minimum RPM, and people tend to increase the speed to that minimum, I just tell people go wide open and leave it. It won't hurt it. Oh, and it has to be at operating temperature. If the engine is cold, or not warmed up, it will not regen.

Just a couple random things I've run into so far. I fear that this whole regeneration and DPF system is going to be a headache in the long run. Anyone look into what it costs to remove/clean or even replace a DPF? Those are considered normal maintenance at a certain number of hours. Most of us with L's and B's won't have too much to worry with, but the M series guys...it's a pretty sizable hit in the pocketbook. I say mostly "M" series guys because they typically run up more hours in a shorter amount of time than the "little" tractors do. Want even more nightmare? The B26 is gone. The L48 is gone, and the replacements get a DPF. Those are popular compact and mid-size rental units. The average renter will have NO idea what to do when the lights start flashing and the beepers start going crazy....

 

[mikes1165]

The manual that you have is for a later model. I have an L3901 with the later system on it. The reason for the change was that operators were forgetting to turn on the autoregen so the tractor wouldn't regen. So to correct this problem the later models go into autoregen automatically when started and give you the option to inhibit the regen if you are going to stop the tractor before regen could finish or if the additional exhaust heat could be dangerous( fire hazard working around maybe hay or leaves etc.). On mine like previously mentioned parked regen won't work until level 2 warning. Even with the rpm's up high enough my light will flash for probably 30 seconds then go solid and it will regen.

 

[NEPA Guy]

That system is a reformer type regen system. A total joke. The reformer injects fuel directly into the exhaust stream. It also uses a blower to blow air into the exhaust during regen, combined with the fuel, it raises the exhaust temperature enough to satisfy the requirement to "regenerate".

The little B series engines did not get common rail injection. If they did, it would be a lot less headache. Hence one of the reasons when people ask me about the 3350, I tell them go with a non-dpf "B" or go up into a small L series.

Will it work? Yes. The updated software should help things. Parked regen, the tractor has to be in neutral (all ranges), PTO off, park brake on (and light showing in the dash), A/C preferably off on cabin models. Raise RPM to wide open and it should regen. The manuals state that there is a minimum RPM, and people tend to increase the speed to that minimum, I just tell people go wide open and leave it. It won't hurt it. Oh, and it has to be at operating temperature. If the engine is cold, or not warmed up, it will not regen.

Just a couple random things I've run into so far. I fear that this whole regeneration and DPF system is going to be a headache in the long run. Anyone look into what it costs to remove/clean or even replace a DPF? Those are considered normal maintenance at a certain number of hours. Most of us with L's and B's won't have too much to worry with, but the M series guys...it's a pretty sizable hit in the pocketbook. I say mostly "M" series guys because they typically run up more hours in a shorter amount of time than the "little" tractors do. Want even more nightmare? The B26 is gone. The L48 is gone, and the replacements get a DPF. Those are popular compact and mid-size rental units. The average renter will have NO idea what to do when the lights start flashing and the beepers start going crazy....

I thought I read somewhere that the dpf system has a 5 year warranty on it. I wonder if it will have any positive impact on owning one.
Since I never owned a non dpf I guess since I don't know what I'm missing so it shouldn't bother me all too much. I personally don't care if it has to go into a regen mode, I just want it to work as advertised! Still no explanation why mine stalled out twice and then was not able to start it at all after the second stall out.
From what I know now, if I had to go back, I would get a non dpf B series. Just so I won't have to deal with the aggravation of a defective unit. That's why I buy new, to save myself from all that nonsense. Kubota has failed in this case. Horribly so.

I demand restitution!

Thank you for your input, to everyone, it is invaluable. I just hope the day comes soon when I can post my positive experiences and help those like myself when the time comes.

 

[sheepfarmer]

NEPA Guy, I have been keeping a thread on Tier 4 issues, which is stickied under the Tractor Operating forum, and in which there is general information and user experiences. As you can tell from Lugbolt's comments the Tier 4 engines in the different models are different from each other, some have reformers, most don't, some have three vortex fuel mixing, some don't, some have turbos, some don't etc. The controlling software seems to have some commonalities, but I suspect the devil is in the details.


http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18025


I have put a link to your thread in it. So anything further that you find out and post will be appreciated.

 

[NEPA Guy]

NEPA Guy, I have been keeping a thread on Tier 4 issues, which is stickied under the Tractor Operating forum, and in which there is general information and user experiences. As you can tell from Lugbolt's comments the Tier 4 engines in the different models are different from each other, some have reformers, most don't, some have three vortex fuel mixing, some don't, some have turbos, some don't etc. The controlling software seems to have some commonalities, but I suspect the devil is in the details.


http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18025


I have put a link to your thread in it. So anything further that you find out and post will be appreciated.

Thank You!

 

[NEPA Guy]

DUDE!

Its obvious your dealer isn't coming out because he doesn't have a damned idea about what your problem is or how he is supposed to solve it.

Keep us tuned as to what is going on.

Ray

You are so right!

So I hear from my new dealer's mechanic on thursday. (this guy is great) He does research on the serial number of my machine and informed me it took the better half of the day to find out the most likely reason for the issue. Kubota keeps a keen eye on the work done on each machine through individual dealer/mechanic logons. There were three campaigns released for this particular machine/engine. He discovers that knucklehead didn't apply one of the last mandatory "campaigns" released Nov 3rd (firmware update and an air hose inspection/replacement) that address a "regen issue." He said it shouldn't have even been allowed to leave the lot without being applied.
Also, after a disgruntled phone call to the kubota regional manager and the owner of knuckleheads company, I received a placated phonecall on friday from the idiot saying he was coming down with the items he owed me and to bring his computer and "figure out what went wrong." So he hooks his computer up to the tractor and bull****s me by saying everything looked fine. Regen completed successfully last time, he forces a parked regen, and after it completes he says not to worry. I ask why it stalled out twice and he just says it must of overheated. If it happens again, call him and he'll bring the machine in for service....

What an im-bess-ill. What an ultra-maroon! I just had to see what he would say. I didn't tell him that I already knew what the problem was. lol

So my new mechanic will be here in a few days to apply the latest mandatory campaign that will address the regen issue. Victory!

 

[CaveCreekRay]

Now why does a manufacturer allow a retailer like this booger-eating-moron to get his hands on product, especially product that has some technical growing pains without adequate training and an understanding of the issues facing the owner?

The Kubota brand takes a major hit because you, the end user gets a sorry product that is not reliable. The retailer (middleman) takes a hit because no one in their right mind would use this dealer in the future. Yet, this happens year after year. Why?

Some people have no pride in their work and no ethics. They have no compassion because you know darned well, if THEY bought an expensive machine that DIED in their driveway, THEY would be upset, and justifiably so.

There are millions of Americans out of work in this country today. One of those people has to be better than this Sales puke. If I owned the dealership and I saw this happen, I would put the guy on notice: Clean up your act or find another job. And how the dealership allowed this machine to get sold before this critical update was applied: That is a whole 'nuther issue.

It appears no one in this dealership is watching the big picture. If that doesn't get fixed, they will be out of business very soon. This isn't 1985 with simple little machines rolling out the door as fast as you uncrate them.

Good for you. No one should have to go through what you did.

Now you can burn all that unnecessary diesel fuel the UN says is critical to stopping global warming and know its working as planned.

Ray

 

[GreensvilleJay]

emulator is ILLEGAL to use and VOIDS Kubota warranty