Survey monument marker opinion wanted

[ken erickson]

Yesterday spent the day with a friend who helped me mark my most northern property boundary as I will be venturing into a area that has not been forestry mulched for habitat work since I purchased the land in 2017. Needless to say that area is over grown and is adjacent to my neighbors land that is forested , no fence line etc.

Working off the survey I have that was created in 1999 I found this cap at ground level next to a old fence post. My survey indicates a "existing County Monument" at this location.

I feel confident , using a good hand held GPS with 5 decimal place accuracy and Google earth measurements that this is the marker in question. It appears screwed to a section of pipe , not sure how deep that pipe is buried.
The cap is about 4 to 5 inch in diameter.

My question is this. It seems odd that the county would not have any identification or other information on the marker such as "do not remove" "survey Marker" etc. I googled survey markers and monuments and there is a WIDE variety but most have some information.

Thoughts as to if this is in fact a marker that was placed by a Govt entity, state, county etc?

 

[Dustball]

Did you try unscrewing it to see if there was any identifying features underneath?

 

[ken erickson]

Did you try unscrewing it to see if there was any identifying features underneath?

We did not. I just talked to my friend that went in and found it and got the cords etc. I use a wheelchair so did not venture in. We laughed about that and thought perhaps it was filled with double eagle gold coins, LOL.

Kidding aside , do you think that there is a chance that the info would be inside?

 

[xrocketengineer]

Did you try unscrewing it to see if there was any identifying features underneath?

Don't unscrew it, the air might leak out and the Earth will go flat. Then the "flat earthers" will have something to talk about.

 

[ken erickson]

Don't unscrew it, the air might leak out and the Earth will go flat. Then the "flat earthers" will have something to talk about.

You mean the earth is not flat? LOLOL.

 

[pigdoc]

When we bought our property (12 acres, all wooded), I pulled Lat/Long of the corners off a maps.google plot showing the property lines. Plugged them into my iPhone as destinations, and went for a walk. Just pulling Lat/Long off by aligning pixels on a computer screen was remarkably precise - within a foot or so, close enough to stand there and look around to find the marker. I also do this in reverse - set the iPhone on top of the marker, drop a pin, and then drop a pin at that same Lat/Long in maps.google.

-Paul

 

[JimmyJazz]

I would discuss it with the adjoining property owner before I commenced any operations. I prefer to take a cautious and polite approach in what might possibly become a contentious issue. Maintaining good relations with the neighbors is vital amongst country folk.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Around here ,some like to 'ring' markers with old car rotors. Makes finding the 'square bar' a LOT easier ! We have both round and square bars, depending on who did the survey and when.
Funny thing is the kid with his fancy electronics couldn't find 3 of the bars across the street. I pointed out where 2 of them were,left him to find #3.....

 

[ken erickson]

I would discuss it with the adjoining property owner before I commenced any operations. I prefer to take a cautious and polite approach in what might possibly become a contentious issue. Maintaining good relations with the neighbors is vital amongst country folk.

Appreciate the advice but already addressed with the land owner.

I am more interested in the marker itself. I may try and contact the county to see if they have any records or information as to what markers they used etc. The survey I have dates back to 1999 and I have no idea as when this marker was placed.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yep that looks like some of the survey markes I've seen in the past.
Find out which survey company that did the survey as they will have all the records.
I will guess the survey company name starts with G.
Or the G. means Government survey.
The markers come in all different styles and materials.
Some companies mark them some don't.

 

[ken erickson]

Around here ,some like to 'ring' markers with old car rotors. Makes finding the 'square bar' a LOT easier ! We have both round and square bars, depending on who did the survey and when.
Funny thing is the kid with his fancy electronics couldn't find 3 of the bars across the street. I pointed out where 2 of them were,left him to find #3.....

Yes, I have plenty of examples of private survey markers being used that are constructed of all kinds of items. Even on my own survey the surveyor mentions in his notes he placed a 3/4" x 24" Rebar weighing 1.50 lbs / Lin, ft.

 

[ken erickson]

Yep that looks like some of the survey markes I've seen in the past.
FInd out the company that did the survey as they will have all the records.
The markers come in all different styles and materials.

His notes mention that this marker is a "existing County Monument". That is the part that I question.

If in fact it was placed by the County I would expect to see something more in line with this. (generic photo pulled off Google earth)

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Yesterday spent the day with a friend who helped me mark my most northern property boundary as I will be venturing into a area that has not been forestry mulched for habitat work since I purchased the land in 2017. Needless to say that area is over grown and is adjacent to my neighbors land that is forested , no fence line etc.

Working off the survey I have that was created in 1999 I found this cap at ground level next to a old fence post. My survey indicates a "existing County Monument" at this location.

I feel confident , using a good hand held GPS with 5 decimal place accuracy and Google earth measurements that this is the marker in question. It appears screwed to a section of pipe , not sure how deep that pipe is buried.
The cap is about 4 to 5 inch in diameter.

My question is this. It seems odd that the county would not have any identification or other information on the marker such as "do not remove" "survey Marker" etc. I googled survey markers and monuments and there is a WIDE variety but most have some information.

Thoughts as to if this is in fact a marker that was placed by a Govt entity, state, county etc? View attachment 145431

Good day.

That is interesting for sure.

I’ve had a variety of surveys done, but I am most likely not of much help on this one.

To me I guess I would wonder are you interesting enough for a governing body to tell you what you can and can’t do on your property? If not that would help modify who / how I asked about what the marker is.

If I was not concerned with potential limited use, then I would ask your county engineer what it is.

If you are concerned I would ask a survey company if f they have ever seen something like that.

In either option maybe you get some free info? Be cautious how you advertise if you do not want to be ‘told’ IMO. YMMV.

From my exploits playing off road, it does not appear to be a USGS / benchmark. But it also doesn’t look like any survey pin I have seen where there is a cap and a stamp on them. I also am not sure what your pins look like in your area. I can say the pins at my residence are different from pins at my second home which are both in same state but different counties.

Maybe there is a surveyor in the family on OTT that will chime in?

Either way I feel pretty confident I was correct when I said I would not be of much help.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

His notes mention that this marker is a "existing County Monument". That is the part that I question.

If in fact it was placed by the County I would expect to see something more in line with this. (generic photo pulled off Google earth)

View attachment 145450

You do realise that both the pictures you posted are not the marker, that is just a cover for a marker.

The marker or monument under it could look like anything.

FYI: After looking at your picture closer that's a pipe cap, it most likely has the marker under it.

 

[ken erickson]

You do realise that both the pictures you posted are not the marker, that is just a cover for a marker.

The marker or monument under it could look like anything.

FYI: After looking at your picture closer that's a pipe cap, it most likely has the marker under it.

View attachment 145451

I did not realize that! Thank you for that info. Next time at the land I will check it out. Thank you.

 

[Tarmy]

His notes mention that this marker is a "existing County Monument". That is the part that I question.

If in fact it was placed by the County I would expect to see something more in line with this. (generic photo pulled off Google earth)

View attachment 145450

That is a survey/monument well…the actual marker is under the lid.

OP, there are rules regarding what gets set in the field. Check with the county and they will have recorded maps and various documents that will help you figure out what the monument represents.

I owned a survey firm at one time and have found the county surveyors very valuable in helping discern what field conditions represent.

There are usually notes about what instruments are set in the field (pipe, iron pipe, monument, brass discs and wells (like above) that contain various types of monuments). There are also things like Witness Monuments, Section, township and range monuments, property corners, ROW and more…

That pipe should be identifiable in the county records, including when and who set it and what it specifically represents.

 

[ken erickson]

That is a survey/monument well…the actual marker is under the lid.

OP, there are rules regarding what gets set in the field. Check with the county and they will have recorded maps and various documents that will help you figure out what the monument represents.

I owned a survey firm at one time and have found the county surveyors very valuable in helping discern what field conditions represent.

There are usually notes about what instruments are set in the field (pipe, iron pipe, monument, brass discs and wells (like above) that contain various types of monuments). There are also things like Witness Monuments, Section, township and range monuments, property corners, ROW and more…

That pipe should be identifiable in the county records, including when and who set it and what it specifically represents.

Thanks for the great information! Next step will be to check under the cap and see what I have. I will update here , just not sure when the next time I will be at the land.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

 

[Tarmy]

Thanks for the great information! Next step will be to check under the cap and see what I have. I will update here , just not sure when the next time I will be at the land.

Thanks again for everyone's input!

I would be careful with that. There are rules and fines for disturbing monuments, depending on what they are. That pipe may or may not have a pin or other item that you need/should Be careful to not disturb. Like I said, figure out what it is BEFORE you use it or mess with it.

 

[jyoutz]

Yesterday spent the day with a friend who helped me mark my most northern property boundary as I will be venturing into a area that has not been forestry mulched for habitat work since I purchased the land in 2017. Needless to say that area is over grown and is adjacent to my neighbors land that is forested , no fence line etc.

Working off the survey I have that was created in 1999 I found this cap at ground level next to a old fence post. My survey indicates a "existing County Monument" at this location.

I feel confident , using a good hand held GPS with 5 decimal place accuracy and Google earth measurements that this is the marker in question. It appears screwed to a section of pipe , not sure how deep that pipe is buried.
The cap is about 4 to 5 inch in diameter.

My question is this. It seems odd that the county would not have any identification or other information on the marker such as "do not remove" "survey Marker" etc. I googled survey markers and monuments and there is a WIDE variety but most have some information.

Thoughts as to if this is in fact a marker that was placed by a Govt entity, state, county etc? View attachment 145431

That is indeed a survey marker, but I’ve never seen one before with no information. I’m used to the western federal lands USGS/BLM survey markers that have township, range, section, and subdivision information along with elevation stamped on the brass cap.

 

[lynnmor]

Yep that looks like some of the survey markes I've seen in the past.
Find out which survey company that did the survey as they will have all the records.
I will guess the survey company name starts with G.
Or the G. means Government survey.
The markers come in all different styles and materials.
Some companies mark them some don't.

I think that is a pipe cap cast in the Grinnell foundry.