Solar farm and a tornado

BBFarmer

Well-known member

Equipment
L3560HSTC-LE LA555 FDR1672 BB1272 SoldL3301HST
Jul 12, 2024
200
368
63
Terry, MS
We somehow dodged one last year.

The largest land owner in our area, some 30k acres, owns the 3 largest farms in the area.

Year before last, And because the two long term hands were about to retire, it was decided to convert the smallest of the 3 into a solar farm.

The surrounding 5 towns went absolutely ape s@#t.

This is a man, or a family rather, that has owned majority of the county for over a century.

Banks, hardware stores, feed and seeds, grocery, EVERYTHING. Along with more land than most can comprehend.

It was said that this 10 year contract that was about to go down, would have generated $80ish million for this already extremely wealthy individual. That was word around town however, and could've been total bull.

They ended tearing up around 500 acres of land before the whole deal fell through late last year.

I can't, even for a second, wrap my head around the thought of having that much money, land, dozens of businesses, but wanting $80 mil more.
 
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Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
843
971
93
N.Y,
We don't have many tax credits and rebates here, so pricing out a system for the roof with no batteries gave me a 20-year payoff assuming I did all of the installation myself. Paying a company to do it would double the costs for me and it'd never pay itself off as none of the equipment would last that long. I'd like to be less dependent on the power grid, but it doesn't make financial sense around here.
My problem is the cost of homeowners insurance if installed on the roof. That plus batteries makes it hard to get coverage at all. I'm working on a small portable system that has panels on an old equipment trailer and small insulated shipping container for batteries/inverters. It will plug into my generator transfer switch as a totally portable power 12kw generator that just helps reduce our bill. Plus moving all my lithium batteries out to the container after seeing what happens when a Dewalt 18 volt battery decides to go up in smoke. Also hoping to convert my 66 biscayne to be an electric vehicle for around town trips. Just playing, dreaming, and learning at this point
 

lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,396
2,083
113
Mid, South, USA
neighbor guy had panels put on his house, says during certain times of the year his electric bill is negative (credit towards next month and/or a check issued)

guess where that check comes from.. Those of us who don't put that crap on our house. I called the PoCo about this a while back and after talking to several "phone and keyboard jockeys" I finally got someone who knew what was going on, and there is a part of your bill that pays for that stuff. On mine it is called some kind of "fee", which nobody asks about (except me)-and I forget exactly what it's called. That's actually why I called them. It was explained to me that more and more people are putting solar panels on the house and they aren't selling quite as much electricity and in some cases having to write checks to some customers because they put more back into the grid than they use. So they added the fee to every customer's bill to offset.

how about those panels. Guy up the road from here put panels on his place and later on moved (wife died, he moved to a smaller place closer to his kids). The panels weren't paid for so the new home owner had to assume the payments on the solar panels. The cost of the home to the new owners will be higher than advertised because of that. Y'all need to think about that stuff if you are buying a house with solar panels. Need to ask if there is anything owed on them, how old they are, and a bunch of other questions. Solar installers are everywhere now and a big portion of them are in business to separate you from your money in ways that aren't conducive to you actually saving anything. Guy next door has about $15,000 tied up in the panels and batteries. His normal electric bill averaged $154/mo before panels. Let's say $150. That's 8 years 4 months to pay for them if your bill was zero every month. And at the end of that 8 years do we assume that they are still as efficient as they were on day one? Are the batteries still usable? I don't know those answers, neighbor guys seems to have it all figured out, though. He said if nothing changes they'll be paid in full by the savings in electricity in 10 years. That doesn't include insurance-you want those things to be covered for storm damage too. And what about roof? They come in to replace a roof in a few years those panels gotta come off, adds more cost. Gotta clean tree sap off too, or cut the trees down (counterproductive to going solar, IMO but whatever).

Lot of things to think about.

in my case it makes no sense since my electric bill averages $63/mo now (it's up from $58 in 2023). I don't have solar, I don't have anything...just an old, small house which is poorly insulated and has a 25+ year old HVAC.
 
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The Evil Twin

Well-known member

Equipment
L2501, LA526,
Jul 19, 2022
3,065
3,260
113
Virginia
neighbor guy had panels put on his house, says during certain times of the year his electric bill is negative (credit towards next month and/or a check issued)

guess where that check comes from.. Those of us who don't put that crap on our house. I called the PoCo about this a while back and after talking to several "phone and keyboard jockeys" I finally got someone who knew what was going on, and there is a part of your bill that pays for that stuff. On mine it is called some kind of "fee", which nobody asks about (except me)-and I forget exactly what it's called. That's actually why I called them. It was explained to me that more and more people are putting solar panels on the house and they aren't selling quite as much electricity and in some cases having to write checks to some customers because they put more back into the grid than they use. So they added the fee to every customer's bill to offset.

how about those panels. Guy up the road from here put panels on his place and later on moved (wife died, he moved to a smaller place closer to his kids). The panels weren't paid for so the new home owner had to assume the payments on the solar panels. The cost of the home to the new owners will be higher than advertised because of that. Y'all need to think about that stuff if you are buying a house with solar panels. Need to ask if there is anything owed on them, how old they are, and a bunch of other questions. Solar installers are everywhere now and a big portion of them are in business to separate you from your money in ways that aren't conducive to you actually saving anything. Guy next door has about $15,000 tied up in the panels and batteries. His normal electric bill averaged $154/mo before panels. Let's say $150. That's 8 years 4 months to pay for them if your bill was zero every month. And at the end of that 8 years do we assume that they are still as efficient as they were on day one? Are the batteries still usable? I don't know those answers, neighbor guys seems to have it all figured out, though. He said if nothing changes they'll be paid in full by the savings in electricity in 10 years. That doesn't include insurance-you want those things to be covered for storm damage too. And what about roof? They come in to replace a roof in a few years those panels gotta come off, adds more cost. Gotta clean tree sap off too, or cut the trees down (counterproductive to going solar, IMO but whatever).

Lot of things to think about.

in my case it makes no sense since my electric bill averages $63/mo now (it's up from $58 in 2023). I don't have solar, I don't have anything...just an old, small house which is poorly insulated and has a 25+ year old HVAC.
8 years would be 4-6% degradation.
If your bill is that low you wouldn't need $15000 in solar infrastructure. Probably more like $7-8k. It's sized by your annual kWh usage. Areas differ, but if there isn't a residential ratcheting rate (common with 3 phase commercial power) then I wouldn't see a need for batteries unless you are going off grid or using it them for power in the case of a utility failure.
 
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GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,748
5,532
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
neighbor guy had panels put on his house, says during certain times of the year his electric bill is negative (credit towards next month and/or a check issued)

guess where that check comes from.. Those of us who don't put that crap on our house. I called the PoCo about this a while back and after talking to several "phone and keyboard jockeys" I finally got someone who knew what was going on, and there is a part of your bill that pays for that stuff. On mine it is called some kind of "fee", which nobody asks about (except me)-and I forget exactly what it's called. That's actually why I called them. It was explained to me that more and more people are putting solar panels on the house and they aren't selling quite as much electricity and in some cases having to write checks to some customers because they put more back into the grid than they use. So they added the fee to every customer's bill to offset.

how about those panels. Guy up the road from here put panels on his place and later on moved (wife died, he moved to a smaller place closer to his kids). The panels weren't paid for so the new home owner had to assume the payments on the solar panels. The cost of the home to the new owners will be higher than advertised because of that. Y'all need to think about that stuff if you are buying a house with solar panels. Need to ask if there is anything owed on them, how old they are, and a bunch of other questions. Solar installers are everywhere now and a big portion of them are in business to separate you from your money in ways that aren't conducive to you actually saving anything. Guy next door has about $15,000 tied up in the panels and batteries. His normal electric bill averaged $154/mo before panels. Let's say $150. That's 8 years 4 months to pay for them if your bill was zero every month. And at the end of that 8 years do we assume that they are still as efficient as they were on day one? Are the batteries still usable? I don't know those answers, neighbor guys seems to have it all figured out, though. He said if nothing changes they'll be paid in full by the savings in electricity in 10 years. That doesn't include insurance-you want those things to be covered for storm damage too. And what about roof? They come in to replace a roof in a few years those panels gotta come off, adds more cost. Gotta clean tree sap off too, or cut the trees down (counterproductive to going solar, IMO but whatever).

Lot of things to think about.

in my case it makes no sense since my electric bill averages $63/mo now (it's up from $58 in 2023). I don't have solar, I don't have anything...just an old, small house which is poorly insulated and has a 25+ year old HVAC.
re:
So they added the fee to every customer's bill to offset.

up here
went form real light bulbs to CFLs, # of electrons used went down, COST per electron went up...
went from CFLs to LEDs, # of electrons used went down, COST per electron went up...
hmmmm.see a pattern ? doesn't matter how much you use, cost is the same !
Companies have to get xxx dollars per day to run. they get that either wiht 1 guy paying a million $ or 500,000 guys paying $2. 'teeter totter' economics.....

One SCAM with solar is the payback BS. Every solar panel degrades over time BUT 'payback' calculations never factor this in.
 
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Speed25

Well-known member

Equipment
L2501(sold) - BX25D
Apr 23, 2024
190
257
63
NC
One SCAM with solar is the payback BS. Every solar panel degrades over time BUT 'payback' calculations never factor this in.
To be fair, most payback calcs I see don't factor in how much the power rate rises either. When running numbers for my potential system, I had to guess at how much they'd rise since my crystal ball was in the shop being worked on. We have cheap power here and only the federal credit, so payback didn't make sense compared to some areas.
 

WI_Hedgehog

Well-known member

Equipment
BX2370 (impliment details in my Profile->About)
Apr 24, 2024
549
670
93
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
My co-worker uses a lot of electricity (over $450/month) so to him a $45,000 investment in Lifetime-Guaranteed solar panels was worth it in his opinion. ("Lifetime" is 25 years, the expected life of the product.)

Months 1-9 he paid the interest on the 2nd mortgage on his house (you pay up front for the panels), but he had no solar because he couldn't pass all the government inspections. They really jerked him around (like the stickers weren't the latest stickers so....no solar), but it is what it is.

Months 10-12 were good, he got credits on his electric bill of about $15/month, sometimes $40.

Months 13-15 were Winter, so he at least "broke-even" and didn't owe on the electric bill. He still had to pay the 2nd mortgage, but only 18 years to go before breaking-even.

Months 16-forward haven't been so great, the government ended the Credits program and none of the extra electricity he generated for the grid would be credited toward his bill, so that $15-$40 monthly income is gone. (Battery storage is illegal in Wisconsin, all extra power he generates goes to the grid.) Also the government program for 5 years of tax rebates was pulled and he couldn't get any of the tax savings.

Months 26-forward weren't so hot. Two panels failed from hail damage and he had a roof leak. The panels were covered under warranty, but were out of production so they had to special-order replacements. The roof leak wasn't covered under warranty because the solar guys said it was a proper installation, his shingles were old and that's what failed. The roofer did cover the roof damage but said the roof wasn't designed to hold the weight of snow plus the panels, so he's looking at potential structural weakening, roof movement, and his roof warranty is now void because of the extent of roof movement.

While waiting for his replacement panels to come in a third panel failed, but that was just a bad connection from snow movement (likely roof movement) so that was an easy warranty fix.

Until, after a large but not unusual snowstorm the snow slid off his panels, ripping the gutters off his house, that pulled some of the fascia off, and he wound up with roof damage. Thankfully the roofing company was able to fix it for the discounted price of $2,700, so instead of making an insurance claim and paying a $2,500 deductible he paid it all out of pocket. He later found out the insurance company found out about the damage caused by the solar panel installation and raised his insurance rates 35%, plus tacked on a fee to cover the eventual removal of the panels when they age out.

Months 30-forward saw the power company decrease from 100% credit to 85% credit, so even though he was generating 110% of the power he used (10% extra) he was credited for only the amount of power he used at the reimbursement rate of 85%. That rate would decrease every year, eventually to 40% or 50%, the amount hadn't been determined. Also the panel efficiency was down from the planned 130% of usage to 110% of usage from a combination of overcast days and panel degradation--well, that's accounting as if the two dead panels had been replaced, so his production was hovering around 100% not actually 110%.

Until he lost an inverter. At which point he called to get that replaced with three panels (another died from "excessive snow weight"). All that was under warranty, but the company he went with that had a "seven year perfect track record" closed. So he called the manufacturers, and found their warranty was 2 years on the panels, three on inverters, or something like that, and he was outside the warranty periods. $7,500 out of pocket later he's fully back up and running, the manufacturers discounted the panels and shipped replacements right away, same with the inverter.



I love electric stuff and own R/C helicopters, quad racers, a hoverboard, electric wheel, etc. and have the computer-controlled chargers and all that, so please don't think I'm against electric "stuff," it's the opposite. OMG that stuff is expensive to run when looking at all costs, but those are the choices I made and I stand by them. And my co-worker did have a bad run of luck, an Aussie friend has had really good luck with solar and due to AU's outrageous utility costs is saving gobs of (whatever their local currency is). I do believe before "going electric" one needs to realize what's all involved and batteries are limited-lifespan items that require replacement, like collectors, inverters, and solar panels.

We need to be honest about Total Cost of Ownership over what a realistic "lifetime" is, and also cleanup costs. When you have a family to support you really need to know if solar is going to cost you an additional $250/month before deciding if it's right for you. And maybe like for my Aussie friend it is a good investment, people should be able to get all the numbers and averages as it applies to their situation beforehand.
 

biketopia

Well-known member

Equipment
B2650, RK 60" BB, 42" tiller, 72" LP FM, Forks, Grapple, FEL
Feb 15, 2024
291
276
63
Warrenton VA
@WI_Hedgehog That is a very well-written, big-picture view of the potential real-world hurdles of home solar. Like many things, people are attracted to keywords or a fancy sales pitch and don't read or understand the fine print. Like "lifetime warranty" is not your lifetime, but the lifetime of the product. Added insurance costs, weight on your roof, voided warranties etc.

I agree with you, there's a time and place for a lot of this technology but people need to do their due diligence and fully understand the cradle-to-grave aspect of the project. A long-term investment that relies heavenly on paying you back because of government subsidies is never a good idea, unless you're a sugar cane barron in Flordia maybe 😄
 
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