What is "Rear Ballast"? And why do you need it?

Kennyd4110 · Oct 24, 2017

Let me start by saying that this subject is often hotly debated. It is my intention to provide what I believe to be facts, and I will back them up by providing links and references when possible. It is not my intention to cause any controversy or flame wars.

A few definitions from the Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online dictionary:

Ballast - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1
: a heavy substance placed in such a way as to improve stability and control (as of the draft of a ship or the buoyancy of a balloon or submarine)

2
: something that gives stability (as in character or conduct)

Fulcrum - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

a : prop; specifically : the support about which a lever turns

So, this relates to us and our tractors how? Well, the ballast is what we use in the rear of our tractors to offset the weight that we often place on the front-usually with a FEL. The fulcrum or pivot point is the place on the tractor which balances the weight of the load on the front and the weight on the rear. I will illustrate this using example of forklifts since they are easier to find pictures of.

Here is rather good description of what we are talking about taken from this link: Why forklifts Tip Over (sorry link is no longer active). Just substitute the word tractor for forklift:

The forklift is basically like a child's see saw, the load that is picked up is counterbalanced by a counter weight at the other side. If the load is too heavy for the counter weight then it will pivot at the fulcrum (the forklift will tip over forwards). Careful consideration must be taken to get the load as near to the fulcrum as possible as any gap here will be exaggerated and the forklift will not be able to pick up as much.

What we do not want on our tractors-is for all the weight of the load and tractor on the front axle, and that will happen if the rear wheels come off the ground and the front wheels become the fulcrum or pivot point as the pictures clearly show. Four main reasons we want to avoid this are:
1) The front axle is not rated to carry that amount of weight and can fail either quickly, or slowly over time with leaking seals or worn bearings, knuckles and ties rod ends.
2) The front axle pivots at the center, so the tractor could "fall" over to the left or right casing a tip-over condition.
3) We only have brakes on the rear axle, so when it gets light then we loose braking ability. we also loose traction as the rear wheels get lighter.
4) It's much harder on the steering system.

In the forklift examples above, they show the fulcrum or pivot as the front wheels-but they are designed for that and generally the front wheels do not steer on a forklift-whereas we want to move this fulcrum or pivot further rearward so the the rear axle will carry the majority of the weight. How can that be accomplished? The ONLY way is to add weight BEHIND the rear axle. Loading the tires will help with traction, but will not necessarily properly ballast the machine because that weight is already on the ground-it will not become "ballast" until the rear tires are lifted off the ground-and by then it's to late!

Kennyd4110 · Oct 24, 2017

All this is just theory, show me some evidence!

OK, here is some...

This was posted elsewhere, but I do have written permission from the owner to use these pictures.

Some details/facts:

Tractor: John Deere 4105
Loader: John Deere 300cx
Bucket: http://fieldquip.com.au/products-pag...4-in-1-bucket/ It is 6' wide and weights in at about 660 pounds!
R4 tires, NOT loaded
Rear implement: A "ripper" of unknown weight.

So, lets analyze this a little:
The bucket is way to heavy, it alone is about 400 pounds heavier than the stock bucket, and weighs almost half of the lift capacity alone. The ripper is probably about 150 pounds at best. You can see that when the operator started down the hill, the rear end got so light that it just went over into a endo, and the entire weight is now resting on the front axle and the FEL/bucket. Obviously during this transition ALL the weight was on the front axle for a short time, you can also see that the front wheels "folded" over. The owner/operator is very lucky the tractor did not tip over!
Had this operator been more experienced, he could have just lowered the FEL slowly, but he panicked-and got off the machine to get help and take pictures-lucky for us . With more experience, he also probably would have had the bucket lower while traveling, or even backed down that steep hill.

The owner is new to tractors-this is his first one. The dealer sold this setup to him, so who is really at fault? My answer is BOTH, here is why:

Dealer: He should known better, and understand the product he sells and what's all needed to make it work properly and safely. He should have known the bucket was to heavy, and that the owner did not have proper ballast (the ripper). He should have informed the owner about the problems using that bucket and advised him not to buy it even it meant loosing a sale. A injured, paralyzed or dead customer will not be good for repeat business.

Owner: He should have read the manuals that where included with his equipment, and stopped when things did not feel right.

Kennyd4110 · Oct 24, 2017

Edit: This was all written for a John Deere forum, but the info still applies to Kubota tractors. I could not readily find this info specifically relating to Kubota machines and what Kubota USA recommends.

Recently, a member ( Thanks Claudster! ) posted a .pdf document given to him by his dealer/salesman. It should be REQUIRED reading for every sales person and buyer IMHO.

There is also a Ballast Calculator that JD made years ago, it runs in MS Excel.

Both of these are attached below (sorry both are to big or not the correct format for OTT).

Now, lets read our owners manual-yes READ! Let's look at the ever-so-popular 1026R with the H120 FEL for example (note that ballast information is in the loader manual, not the one for the tractor itself):

Link to the online manual: OMW54640

In section 15, "Prepare the Tractor" we find this chart:

You will see that the minimum weight required is 506 pounds, and that also you should have 3 iron weights on each rear wheel! Sounds like overkill eh? Well maybe it is, but it does get the point across that you must have weight on the rear of these tractors to operate them safely and effectively. How many salesman know this information, relay it to the customers? My guess is very few.

RCW · Oct 26, 2017

Kenny -

Maybe coachgeo could make it a sticky, because it does come up often.

Nice job!

Kennyd4110 · Oct 26, 2017

Thank you RCW.

Perhaps you can suggest the sticky idea to him? I'd hate to appear self-serving by doing it myself LOL

North Idaho Wolfman · Oct 26, 2017

Kenny,
Exellent info...Stuck!

ipz2222 · Oct 28, 2017

Kennyd,,, "sounds like overkill". Not when it comes to your life. I'm one of those people who have rolled a tractor over because I had too much weight in the fel and NO ballast. I was extremely fortunate that the tractor simply rolled on it's side and not on down the hill. My sop now is this ,, if the fel is on, the ballast is on.

Kennyd4110 · Oct 28, 2017

ipz2222 said:
Kennyd,,, "sounds like overkill". Not when it comes to your life. I'm one of those people who have rolled a tractor over because I had too much weight in the fel and NO ballast. I was extremely fortunate that the tractor simply rolled on it's side and not on down the hill. My sop now is this ,, if the fel is on, the ballast is on.

Mine too. :thumbsup: Thanks for telling your story here.

It still amazes me that so many sales people at the dealers (of all colors) tell customers that it's not needed.

Gaspasser · Dec 31, 2023

Kennyd4110 said:
Let me start by saying that this subject is often hotly debated. It is my intention to provide what I believe to be facts, and I will back them up by providing links and references when possible. It is not my intention to cause any controversy or flame wars.

A few definitions from the Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online dictionary:

Ballast - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Fulcrum - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So, this relates to us and our tractors how? Well, the ballast is what we use in the rear of our tractors to offset the weight that we often place on the front-usually with a FEL. The fulcrum or pivot point is the place on the tractor which balances the weight of the load on the front and the weight on the rear. I will illustrate this using example of forklifts since they are easier to find pictures of.

View attachment 28268 View attachment 28269 View attachment 28270 View attachment 28271

Here is rather good description of what we are talking about taken from this link: Why forklifts Tip Over (sorry link is no longer active). Just substitute the word tractor for forklift:

What we do not want on our tractors-is for all the weight of the load and tractor on the front axle, and that will happen if the rear wheels come off the ground and the front wheels become the fulcrum or pivot point as the pictures clearly show. Four main reasons we want to avoid this are:
1) The front axle is not rated to carry that amount of weight and can fail either quickly, or slowly over time with leaking seals or worn bearings, knuckles and ties rod ends.
2) The front axle pivots at the center, so the tractor could "fall" over to the left or right casing a tip-over condition.
3) We only have brakes on the rear axle, so when it gets light then we loose braking ability. we also loose traction as the rear wheels get lighter.
4) It's much harder on the steering system.

In the forklift examples above, they show the fulcrum or pivot as the front wheels-but they are designed for that and generally the front wheels do not steer on a forklift-whereas we want to move this fulcrum or pivot further rearward so the the rear axle will carry the majority of the weight. How can that be accomplished? The ONLY way is to add weight BEHIND the rear axle. Loading the tires will help with traction, but will not necessarily properly ballast the machine because that weight is already on the ground-it will not become "ballast" until the rear tires are lifted off the ground-and by then it's to late!

Thank you so much Ken. Great primer and explanation. Much appreciated.

Best

Donystoy · Dec 31, 2023

There is certainly no more important safety topic when operating tractors than stability and proper counter balancing especially when using an fel. Not everyone who purchases a tractor has the knowledge or understanding of the importance of this. I personally know someone who went down a hill with a load and nothing on the rear of his b7100. Fortunately he had a hired hand who found him and called 911. He ended up having his spleen removed. Lucky to have survived.

Runs With Scissors · Jan 1, 2024

Donystoy said:
Not everyone who purchases a tractor has the knowledge or understanding of the importance of this.

So true.

I also wonder how many guys "just suck it up" and through pride/embarrassment don't (or won't) ask for help?

True story,

When they dropped off my tractor, "the kid" (well guy, but he looked like a kid to me....lol) asked me if I wanted a "run down" on how it worked.

I said "yes", and after swallowing my pride a little, I admitted to "the kid" that I had never actually ran/used a tractor before.

So he gave me a decent little tutorial on the "do's and don'ts", but the #1 thing he stressed to me was the the importance of keeping things as low as possible.

He also said "If you ever get in trouble and feel like its going over, just do this".........and he proceeded to jam the loader stick forward to drop the bucket fast.

This, as I now know, is called the "float mode"

It was good info and I appreciated it.

Had I been the "macho prick" my wife accuses me of being when in need of directions, I would have told the "kid" no, and well who knows......

Ironically enough, a friend of mine bought a used Kubota tractor about 3 years ago and during a recent BS session, he "wished" that he could "back drag" without the bucket cutting into the dirt.

I said why don't you just put it in "float mode"? He looked at me like I had 3 noses, then I lifted the bucket and jammed his loader stick forward to show him the detent position/float mode...... he was amazed.

He has run that tractor for 3 years and never knew about that feature.

D2Cat · Jan 1, 2024

RWS, I would never purposely use float mode when wanting the tractor bucket to slam to the ground for safety reason, either balance or brakes. If going down a steep grade as in the picture Kenny posted in his ballast thread using float mode will not keep down pressure to slow the problem. It will create drag, but the bucket can continue scooting down hill (because it's floating) and operator has no further hydraulic help.

GreensvilleJay · Jan 1, 2024

What I found totally unbelievable is that anyone, with a credit card, can RENT anything ,including a Kubota full size excavator from Greenbelt Rentals. NO knowledge of HOW it works, What lever does this or that. Driver unloads, you sign, he leaves....'have a nice day'.....

je1279 · Jan 1, 2024

D2Cat said:
RWS, I would never purposely use float mode when wanting the tractor bucket to slam to the ground for safety reason, either balance or brakes. If going down a steep grade as in the picture Kenny posted in his ballast thread using float mode will not keep down pressure to slow the problem. It will create drag, but the bucket can continue scooting down hill (because it's floating) and operator has no further hydraulic help.

I agree with your assessment. However, if you start to feel the tractor tipping to one side or the other when the bucket is raised, throwing the loader into float mode may prevent the tractor from tipping. That having been said, the vast majority of pictures you see online where a compact tractor has tipped or rolled, have the buckets elevated over the hood. In addition to having the appropriate amount of ballast, it's also a best practice to keep your bucket as low as possible when doing any loader work and to be aware of any hills or slopes in your work area.

D2Cat · Jan 1, 2024

je1279 said:
I agree with your assessment. However, if you start to feel the tractor tipping to one side or the other when the bucket is raised, throwing the loader into float mode may prevent the tractor from tipping. That having been said, the vast majority of pictures you see online where a compact tractor has tipped or rolled, have the buckets elevated over the hood. In addition to having the appropriate amount of ballast, it's also a best practice to keep your bucket as low as possible when doing any loader work and to be aware of any hills or slopes in your work area.

Yes, but the loader will go down just as fast with the lever pushed to go down as when pushed to float. Bucket gets to the ground at the same rate, but with one you have down pressure and one you don"t.

fried1765 · Jan 1, 2024

GreensvilleJay said:
What I found totally unbelievable is that anyone, with a credit card, can RENT anything ,including a Kubota full size excavator from Greenbelt Rentals. NO knowledge of HOW it works, What lever does this or that. Driver unloads, you sign, he leaves....'have a nice day'.....

"Greenbelt Rentals" ........I dunno ??????
Suspect that would be......"Sunbelt Rentals" !!

mcmxi · Jan 1, 2024

@Kennyd4110, great info. My local Kubota dealer installs beet juice or equivalent in all tractor rear tires unless specifically asked not to by the customer. I have beet juice and three sets of wheels weights per side on both tractors. I still need to finish the 3-point suitcase weight bracket that I'm making for those occasions when I need even more rear ballast.

When I lifted the disc harrow off the trailer (see below), the back didn't feel light at all. If I were heading downhill I'd want to have something heavy out back for sure. That JD F835 is very heavy hence the JD 825A out back.

Runs With Scissors · Jan 2, 2024

D2Cat said:
RWS, I would never purposely use float mode when wanting the tractor bucket to slam to the ground for safety reason, either balance or brakes. If going down a steep grade as in the picture Kenny posted in his ballast thread using float mode will not keep down pressure to slow the problem. It will create drag, but the bucket can continue scooting down hill (because it's floating) and operator has no further hydraulic help.

I agree that balance, brakes, and safe practice are best, and I didn't get the impression that he was telling me to use the float mode in place of those, but as a sort of "last resort" type thing to keep from going "ass over apple cart".

For instance, I was moving a 1/2 pallet of wet sod this summer. I only had it about 6 inchs off the ground and as I turned, heading down my driveway, the left rear tire came off the ground.

I jammed that stick forward so fast I nearly broke it...LOL

It wasn't even a "hold my beer and watch this..." moment , just an accident/mis-calculation.

je1279 · Jan 2, 2024

I don't recommend it as a standard practice or when your load can be safely lowered to adjust the center of gravity downward, but it is definitely something to keep in mind in the event that you suddenly experience an oh $hit moment.

gator tx · Jan 2, 2024

I read people talking stability with rear ballast which is so true! But, when I read these post, I never see where people are talking about how important it is to also have rear ballast when lifting heavy to take the strain and pressure off the front axle.

What is "Rear Ballast"? And why do you need it?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member