Just took delivery of my new 2019 BX1880 yesterday, and I couldn’t help but notice that in 2019 all Kubota’s under 26hp have had their Horsepower ratings lowered? My 1880 went from 18 to 16.6 the GR2120 went from 21 to 17hp. Does anyone know the reason for this? New emissions equipment maybe? Kind of funny that only the tractors that don’t require a DPF are the ones that changed.
2019 Lower Horsepower ratings
- Thread starter Mattj88
- Start date
My understanding is that the physical tractor and power hasn't changed at all, but that Kubota have changed the measurement methodology.
I believe that the ways to measure tractor horsepower aren't entirely standard, and that perhaps Kubota have been more generous than they could have been with their measures. Having said that, it also seems to leave the way open for Kubota to put more horses into their tractors whilst staying under the mandated emissions HP limits - i.e. if the B2601 is now deemed to have 23.5HP, then they can add another 2.5 HP to it and still be under the emissions limit. That'd be convenient from where I'm sitting.
I believe that the ways to measure tractor horsepower aren't entirely standard, and that perhaps Kubota have been more generous than they could have been with their measures. Having said that, it also seems to leave the way open for Kubota to put more horses into their tractors whilst staying under the mandated emissions HP limits - i.e. if the B2601 is now deemed to have 23.5HP, then they can add another 2.5 HP to it and still be under the emissions limit. That'd be convenient from where I'm sitting.
Horsepower ratings are governed by the SAE and their specs all still say horsepower is according to SAE1995 standard. But that being said Kubota could be “lowering” all its hp to avoid incoming emissions standards.
Not sure what 'incoming emissions standard' refer to. Tier 4 Final is just that. The final mandate that causes manufacturers pain and end users grief.
Until the technology catches up to the emissions hardware there will be grief for the end user. Once technology catches up and surpasses the mandate, diesel engines will become like modern gasoline engines. Stone reliable, power producers with no emissions.
Until then, the end user gets to bear the 'issues' of the mandate.
Far as the SAE standard for developed horsepower, that all depends on who is doing the testing. I kind of go by the Nebraska tests when it comes to drawbar pull and developed pto power, though not always. Both my tractors are rated at 80 pto horsepower but my seat of the pants measurement tells me it's more than that.
I go by 2 standards, torque rise, which is the ability for the engine to assume a load without laboring and the amount and quantity of black smoke that comes out the exhaust stack. Most times, my exhaust is clean but when I really put a load on them, like heavy mowing wit the bat wing, I can make them smoke which to me is a good indicator of how hard the engine is working. My engines are turbocharged so the turbo adds to the 'felt torque rise as it provides a positive intake pressure and crams more charge air into the cylinders. More combustion air equals more torque and horsepower, at last to the point where the wastegate opens and controls the intake charge from over boosting the engine.
With a Tier 4 final engine, there is no smoke because the 'smoke' which is soot, is contained in the DPF and gets cremated during regeneration and eventually has to be removed (when the DPF becomes full of cremated soot). Consequently, the 'seat of the pants', torque rise comes into play.
Until the technology catches up to the emissions hardware there will be grief for the end user. Once technology catches up and surpasses the mandate, diesel engines will become like modern gasoline engines. Stone reliable, power producers with no emissions.
Until then, the end user gets to bear the 'issues' of the mandate.
Far as the SAE standard for developed horsepower, that all depends on who is doing the testing. I kind of go by the Nebraska tests when it comes to drawbar pull and developed pto power, though not always. Both my tractors are rated at 80 pto horsepower but my seat of the pants measurement tells me it's more than that.
I go by 2 standards, torque rise, which is the ability for the engine to assume a load without laboring and the amount and quantity of black smoke that comes out the exhaust stack. Most times, my exhaust is clean but when I really put a load on them, like heavy mowing wit the bat wing, I can make them smoke which to me is a good indicator of how hard the engine is working. My engines are turbocharged so the turbo adds to the 'felt torque rise as it provides a positive intake pressure and crams more charge air into the cylinders. More combustion air equals more torque and horsepower, at last to the point where the wastegate opens and controls the intake charge from over boosting the engine.
With a Tier 4 final engine, there is no smoke because the 'smoke' which is soot, is contained in the DPF and gets cremated during regeneration and eventually has to be removed (when the DPF becomes full of cremated soot). Consequently, the 'seat of the pants', torque rise comes into play.
Did the torque numbers go down significantly too?
HP is just Torque x RPM in basic terms so perhaps they have lowered the operating engine speeds.
Dave
HP is just Torque x RPM in basic terms so perhaps they have lowered the operating engine speeds.
Dave
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
I remember when small engines USED to be sold by the HP ,the 'new standard ' is displacement. It's a marketing and legal thing. someone probably sued B&S that their 6.5 HP engine only produce 6.4HP. Displacement is a constant. Now I just take the nuber and divide by 30 to get HP. IE: 270cc /30 = 9 HP.
I've always wondered why 'tractors' ,like my BX23S MUST have ROPS meanwhile the 60MPH ATV doesn't.
I've always wondered why 'tractors' ,like my BX23S MUST have ROPS meanwhile the 60MPH ATV doesn't.