Installing Diesel Exhaust Fluid System

[Fishhook]

I want to add a diesel exhaust fluid system to my tractor before California makes it mandatory. Does anyone know of someone who's done this? I don't want to wait because all the components will be sold out as soon as it's announced. I've looked at battery powered tractors, but don't think they're very capable.

 

[fried1765]

I want to add a diesel exhaust fluid system to my tractor before California makes it mandatory. Does anyone know of someone who's done this? I don't want to wait because all the components will be sold out as soon as it's announced. I've looked at battery powered tractors, but don't think they're very capable.

You live in Alaska!
Are they as DPF crazy up there as CA ?

 

[Fishhook]

You live in Alaska!
Are they as crazy up there as CA ?

I don't know.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Whatever YOU do will NOT pass state inspection so what waste your money and time ? Heck ,if you're talking about the 18HP tractor in your 'bio', there's probably MILLIONS of more powerful engines the state will have to certify before they get to yours.
BTW ,unless you registered the tractor how would they know you have a tractor ?
sounds like a 'cart before the horse' deal....

 

[JimDeL]

Are they likely to make a DEF regulation retroactive? Having dealt with CARB in the distant past, it seems unlikely.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

If they told me I had to.. I 'd say fine after EVERY state and city owned diesel powered vehicle has been retrofitted as well as EVERY choochoo locomotive...,oh yeah... diesel powered ships coming into port....

 

[Fishhook]

Are they likely to make a DEF regulation retroactive? Having dealt with CARB in the distant past, it seems unlikely.

Didn't they just pass legislation for diesel pick-up trucks?

 

[Ktrim]

Why would you bow down to the idiocracy. We should be fighting these ridiculous mandates not helping them.

 

[Fishhook]

Why would you bow down to the idiocracy. We should be fighting these ridiculous mandates not helping them.

I can remember the times before DEF and the disgusting, sweet, sickening smell of diesel exhaust and seeing the plumes of black soot billowing from the exhaust of tractors, trucks, cars, and semis. Now, there are young people who never experienced the 70's - thinking it's "cool" to delete the DPF systems on their vehicles and then purposefully discharging unburned diesel into the air my family and I breathe. Think it's idiocracy? Try driving an old Class 8 truck 1,000 in the winter where you can still remember the smell and taste of the fumes 20 years later. I really don't think it's "idiocracy". My "stock" truck produces over 1,000 ft/lb of torque and I can pull a 40,000 lb trailer up a 14% grade at highway speed. If I delete the emissions system from my truck, what would that accomplish besides allowing the manufacturer to deny a warranty claim?

 

[Ktrim]

How exactly did we go to deleting?

 

[jimh406]

I want to add a diesel exhaust fluid system to my tractor before California makes it mandatory.

Although technically possible, it would be opposite of a delete. Instead of removing, you'd have to add a DPF and DEF system and reprogram the ECU to use it. There is probably no reason for any company to enter the space since messing the EPA led to a lot of fines for a lot of companies.

Practically speaking, you'd be much better off selling your non-DPF, non-DEF tractor when required or if you want to do it now, trade off/sell off yours for a model that uses DEF. Personally, I'd wait. It's possible there will be a change to either outlaw all diesels or allow exceptions for very small engine tractors since it's CA.

 

[Fishhook]

How exactly did we go to deleting?

Deleting? I don't see anything about deleting a DPF. Did someone post about deleting a system?

 

[Fishhook]

Although technically possible, it would be opposite of a delete. Instead of removing, you'd have to add a DPF and DEF system and reprogram the ECU to use it. There is probably no reason for any company to enter the space since messing the EPA led to a lot of fines for a lot of companies.

Practically speaking, you'd be much better off selling your non-DPF, non-DEF tractor when required or if you want to do it now, trade off/sell off yours for a model that uses DEF. Personally, I'd wait. It's possible there will be a change to either outlaw all diesels or allow exceptions for very small engine tractors since it's CA.

My understanding on a system, the DEF is injected into the exhaust system in order to facilitate the removal of soot from the DPF. There are NOx and O2 sensors before and after the DPF to monitor the difference in these compounds. I have all the components already. a (complete system) so there would be little cost in installation compared to selling and buying a new tractor. Do you know how I would go about reprogramming the ECU?

 

[ruger1980]

My understanding on a system, the DEF is injected into the exhaust system in order to facilitate the removal of soot from the DPF. There are NOx and O2 sensors before and after the DPF to monitor the difference in these compounds. I have all the components already. a (complete system) so there would be little cost in installation compared to selling and buying a new tractor. Do you know how I would go about reprogramming the ECU?

There are two separate systems in exhaust aftertreatment systems. One to address particulate emissions, the Nox emissions, the SCR. The DPF traps particulates which is what soot is. The SCR catalyst uses ammonia to catalyze Nox into less harmful substances. DEF or the mixture of Urea and water is broken down into ammonia in the exhaust stream before the catalyst.

Is is very unlikely that CARB will make any exhaust aftertreatment systems retroactive and the EPA is definitely not going to. CARB may make it infeasible or place regulations that force end users to use newer vehicles/equipment that are complaint with those regulations.

 

[Oleracer]

I can remember the times before DEF and the disgusting, sweet, sickening smell of diesel exhaust and seeing the plumes of black soot billowing from the exhaust of tractors, trucks, cars, and semis. Now, there are young people who never experienced the 70's - thinking it's "cool" to delete the DPF systems on their vehicles and then purposefully discharging unburned diesel into the air my family and I breathe. Think it's idiocracy? Try driving an old Class 8 truck 1,000 in the winter where you can still remember the smell and taste of the fumes 20 years later. I really don't think it's "idiocracy". My "stock" truck produces over 1,000 ft/lb of torque and I can pull a 40,000 lb trailer up a 14% grade at highway speed. If I delete the emissions system from my truck, what would that accomplish besides allowing the manufacturer to deny a warranty claim?

Well for one thing… less plastic def bottles on the side of the road or in dumpsters( but becareful cant have plastic straws) more down time on every def truck out there. They are towed in by the thousands every day when they derate . Let alone how many emissions class 8 trucks burn to the ground everyday during regen. They have burned up other trucks in truck stops and done millions of dollars( probably billions)in damage to toll booths,highways.
Most of us small trucking companies now buy older gliders so we can run 1 million miles trouble free. Unlike emissions junk at 355k fleets getting rid of them.
Now you really have no choice for power other than junk x15 of?
I’ll stop here…. Lots more reasons to delete or in my case dont buy anything class 8 newer than 01. Or buy a used glider.
Wont even get into health hazards or corrosion problems with def. Just look at a def pump
Hopefully Chevron deference
Puts the screws to carb and EPA crap.
But i have a suspicion you may know all this………

 

[jimh406]

Do you know how I would go about reprogramming the ECU?

Nope, but even if you added the system and your ECU was sufficient to run both existing systems, regeneration, and the new DPF and DEF, you'd have to verify it meets the CA rules. Who knows how much it might cost to get your system certified.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Do you know how I would go about reprogramming the ECU?

Sure , I've reprogrammed microcontrollers every day since about 1986ish.

1st. determine the make/model of the micro
2nd.read the machine code out of it
3rd, edit as required
4th.'burn' the new program into the micro
5th. test and repeat 2-3-4 until you're happy..
It is that easy...

Now the 'challenge' is that 99.44% of those that want to do this haven't got a clue as to what 'machine code' is, have testing facilities for the sensors, or enough chemical/electronics educations to actually make the code changes.

#1 is kinda easy,especially if the chip's ID is on it.
#2 is tricky. Most MFRS do not allow chips to be read(though there are 'tricks of the trade'.
#3 the complicated part,1/2 science,1/2 art/ 1/2 luck getting the 'numbers ' right
#4 the piece of cake...takes less than a minute
#5 boring and frustrating,'revising' and 'tweaking' code can be 50-60-100 revisions

Obviously there are 'cheats', like taking the code from a similar engine already using DEF/DPF. Reverse engineer to get the algorithms( 'math' ) and adjust as required. Again, once you have the machine code, it's fairly straightforward.
Biggest 'cheat' is to buy a 'tuner'. An external micro that talks to the original ECU and changes 'parameters' or 'settings'.

 

[JimDeL]

Didn't they just pass legislation for diesel pick-up trucks?

But did they make the rules retroactive and applicable to priorly manufactured vehicles?

 

[RCW]

@Fishhook - good luck.

I would never take on that project, but best wishes if you deem it important.

 

[fried1765]

I can remember the times before DEF and the disgusting, sweet, sickening smell of diesel exhaust and seeing the plumes of black soot billowing from the exhaust of tractors, trucks, cars, and semis. Now, there are young people who never experienced the 70's - thinking it's "cool" to delete the DPF systems on their vehicles and then purposefully discharging unburned diesel into the air my family and I breathe. Think it's idiocracy? Try driving an old Class 8 truck 1,000 in the winter where you can still remember the smell and taste of the fumes 20 years later. I really don't think it's "idiocracy". My "stock" truck produces over 1,000 ft/lb of torque and I can pull a 40,000 lb trailer up a 14% grade at highway speed. If I delete the emissions system from my truck, what would that accomplish besides allowing the manufacturer to deny a warranty claim?

I just wonder if all the diesel fumes from Asia ever make their way through the jet stream to AK, or if they simply hover only over Asia.