L35 - No front loader Tilt

Fire-N-The-Hole

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L35
Mar 22, 2023
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As the title states, I have lost the ability to tilt my front loader bucket. All the other hydraulics work fine. Recently, changed a hose out so I thought the hydraulic system needed to be bled. Nope. Dealer/service place they don't need to be bled.

I was working on a steep downward hill using my BT90 backoe. I placed the bucket in the down position (bucket scoop facing the ground) while my side stabilizers were down.
After digging, the bucket refused to tilt up. Now it just dangles.

Anyone know how to fix this?
 

TheOldHokie

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As the title states, I have lost the ability to tilt my front loader bucket. All the other hydraulics work fine. Recently, changed a hose out so I thought the hydraulic system needed to be bled. Nope. Dealer/service place they don't need to be bled.

I was working on a steep downward hill using my BT90 backoe. I placed the bucket in the down position (bucket scoop facing the ground) while my side stabilizers were down.
After digging, the bucket refused to tilt up. Now it just dangles.

Anyone know how to fix this?
Should be straight forward. You start by looking ar the functioning of the control valve and cylinder.

There are two hoses going from the loader valve to the bucket cylinders. With the bucket on the ground disconnect the end of both hoses from the rightmost bucket cylinder and place both in a clean bucket.

Start tractor and operate the loader valve to curl bucket and you should get oil flow from ONE of the hoses.

Next operate the valve to dump bucket and you should get oil flow from BOTH hoses.

If oil flow is not as described the loader valve is broken. If oil flows as described one or both cylinders are broken.

Report results and we will go from there.

Dan
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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I'll bet you've broken the pistons in the cylinders.
If the bucket is dangling you have broken the cylinders!
Or at least one!
 

TheOldHokie

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So I tested it again. If the RPMs are high, the loader will tilt but goes back down.
That would suggest cylinder damage of some sort.

Dod you do the test I suggested? You are going to wind up there sooner or later so might as well do it now and confirm the valve is working.

Dan
 

fried1765

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As the title states, I have lost the ability to tilt my front loader bucket. All the other hydraulics work fine. Recently, changed a hose out so I thought the hydraulic system needed to be bled. Nope. Dealer/service place they don't need to be bled.

I was working on a steep downward hill using my BT90 backoe. I placed the bucket in the down position (bucket scoop facing the ground) while my side stabilizers were down.
After digging, the bucket refused to tilt up. Now it just dangles.

Anyone know how to fix this?
I have a dangling problem too,.....but am 83.;)
 
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jiggseob

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B6200 HST with Allied loader, Muratori 48" hyd side shift tiller
Nov 12, 2023
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Round Hill, Alberta, Canada
I suggest that there is damage inside one of the cylinders. The piston has detached from the rod, and all of the oil for the bucket-tilt circuit just flows past through the rod-hole in the piston. It probably did not disassemble itself nicely; piston messed up, seals chewed, etc.

When you rev the engine to wide-open-throttle, you get max oil-flow. Whatever failure is there is slightly constricting that max oil flow, and enough pressure is applied to the other cylinder to roll the bucket back. When you reduce engine rpm - and oil flow - the pressure drops off and gravity rolls the bucket back down.

If you are really horse-shoe-up-the-@#$$ lucky, you could take the cylinder apart, put the nut back on the rod through the piston, and be back in operation. In reality, whatever has failed inside a cylinder may have scored the bore, bent the rod, stripped off the rod threads, etc, etc.

I suggest acquiring two new replacement cylinders for the bucket-tilt cylinders. Theoretically you could replace just one cylinder, but slight difference in retracted length or extended length may put a twist-force on the bucket or damage the cylinders. In Canada, the go-to for such things is Princess Auto. I presume theres a similar supplier in the US.


On my L3130, the "head" of a bucket tilt cylinder had stripped threads and needed replacement. That part alone was like $180 from the dealer. The "kit" of seals was a further $200. For an extra $20 I could have purchased two new cylinders from Princess Auto.

I suspect that parts pricing between repair/replace will be similar in your area.

First step is to take out the bucket-end pins of one cylinder at a time. Then operate the circuit and observe what the cylinder without the pin in it does. It should take you two minutes to figure out which cylinder is pooched. Then remove and disassemble the cylinder that doesn't work. Hopefully your horseshoe is in-place and you just put the rod back into the piston and put the nut on and reassemble.

Which presents a question... if the nut has come off the piston-end of the rod, and you disassemble the cylinder and only the rod comes out... that leaves the piston, with the nut and washer rattling behind it, stuck in the cylinder... how do you get the piston out?

Good luck.
 

Fire-N-The-Hole

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L35
Mar 22, 2023
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That would suggest cylinder damage of some sort.

Dod you do the test I suggested? You are going to wind up there sooner or later so might as well do it now and confirm the valve is working.

Dan
Haven't done the test you mentioned. Town is a bit far. Likely by next week I will have a clean bucket. How much is a cylinder and where can I get one?
 

TheOldHokie

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Haven't done the test you mentioned. Town is a bit far. Likely by next week I will have a clean bucket. How much is a cylinder and where can I get one?
OEM replacements are no longer available. You can probably find a suitable aftermarket replacement for about $200-$250. It wont be an exact match for OEM so you would probably want to replace both cylinders.

Dan
 

Fire-N-The-Hole

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Mar 22, 2023
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I suggest that there is damage inside one of the cylinders. The piston has detached from the rod, and all of the oil for the bucket-tilt circuit just flows past through the rod-hole in the piston. It probably did not disassemble itself nicely; piston messed up, seals chewed, etc.

When you rev the engine to wide-open-throttle, you get max oil-flow. Whatever failure is there is slightly constricting that max oil flow, and enough pressure is applied to the other cylinder to roll the bucket back. When you reduce engine rpm - and oil flow - the pressure drops off and gravity rolls the bucket back down.

If you are really horse-shoe-up-the-@#$$ lucky, you could take the cylinder apart, put the nut back on the rod through the piston, and be back in operation. In reality, whatever has failed inside a cylinder may have scored the bore, bent the rod, stripped off the rod threads, etc, etc.

I suggest acquiring two new replacement cylinders for the bucket-tilt cylinders. Theoretically you could replace just one cylinder, but slight difference in retracted length or extended length may put a twist-force on the bucket or damage the cylinders. In Canada, the go-to for such things is Princess Auto. I presume theres a similar supplier in the US.


On my L3130, the "head" of a bucket tilt cylinder had stripped threads and needed replacement. That part alone was like $180 from the dealer. The "kit" of seals was a further $200. For an extra $20 I could have purchased two new cylinders from Princess Auto.

I suspect that parts pricing between repair/replace will be similar in your area.

First step is to take out the bucket-end pins of one cylinder at a time. Then operate the circuit and observe what the cylinder without the pin in it does. It should take you two minutes to figure out which cylinder is pooched. Then remove and disassemble the cylinder that doesn't work. Hopefully your horseshoe is in-place and you just put the rod back into the piston and put the nut on and reassemble.

Which presents a question... if the nut has come off the piston-end of the rod, and you disassemble the cylinder and only the rod comes out... that leaves the piston, with the nut and washer rattling behind it, stuck in the cylinder... how do you get the piston out?

Good luck.
Instead of taking it apart, I should just get 2 new pistons.

Is this the process your talking about?
 

TheOldHokie

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Instead of taking it apart, I should just get 2 new pistons.

Is this the process your talking about?
Thats a full disassembly and rebuild. You may need more tjan those seals - e.g. tje rod is broken.

Testing the cylinders on the tractor to see which if any is defective is easy.

Dan
 

rbargeron

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.........Start tractor and operate the loader valve to curl bucket and you should get oil flow from ONE of the hoses.

Next operate the valve to dump bucket and you should get oil flow from BOTH hoses.

If oil flow is not as described the loader valve is broken. If oil flows as described one or both cylinders are broken......
Dan is right - BOTH sides of the piston are pressurized when dumping the bucket. To allow good curl control, the system uses the larger area on top of the piston to overpower the bottom area to "push" it down, safely controlling the load. Dick B.
 
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jiggseob

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B6200 HST with Allied loader, Muratori 48" hyd side shift tiller
Nov 12, 2023
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Round Hill, Alberta, Canada
My experience with ONE bucket-tilt cylinder on my L3130 tractor LA723 loader was that fixing the cylinder was $20 less expensive than buying TWO replacement cylinders from our Canadian ag-light-industrial hydraulic supplier.

I, and others, are of the opinion that inside one of your cylinders are failed hard-parts. Just a guess that its probably a piston, maybe a rod, and maybe more than that required for hard-parts. Plus seals (soft parts) will be some more money.

Yes, it is possible that the one of your cylinders that is failed can be repaired for less than the cost of two non-Kubota complete replacement cylinders. For my LA723 loader, the 2" x 18" stroke cylinders are these. They have the correct size pin holes, correct ends, and even the correct 3/8 npt ports. Print off the page/link below, and take it and your dead cylinder with you to the hydraulic store and ask for that type/size of cylinder. They really are quite common.

 
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Fire-N-The-Hole

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L35
Mar 22, 2023
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I spoke to a kubota dealer over the phone. The rep said it's not a cylinder issue since it's not leaking fluid. Since I have to Rev the engine it's the hydraulic pump. He couldn't quote me a price (said I'd have to bring it in then said I could sell it and they have tractors, blah blah). How much are these pumps?
 

TheOldHokie

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I spoke to a kubota dealer over the phone. The rep said it's not a cylinder issue since it's not leaking fluid. Since I have to Rev the engine it's the hydraulic pump. He couldn't quote me a price (said I'd have to bring it in then said I could sell it and they have tractors, blah blah). How much are these pumps?
The pump is obviously working fine on the boom. The dealers man is an idiot. Run the tests.

Dan
 

Fire-N-The-Hole

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The pump is obviously working fine on the boom. The dealers man is an idiot. Run the tests.

Dan
He seemed like he was not interested in my issue. Quoted me $1900 for a cylinder then said it's not a cylinder issue (no leaks) but a pump issue etc..they have tractors...

I'll do the test later today.

Could this be the issue as well?
 

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jiggseob

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B6200 HST with Allied loader, Muratori 48" hyd side shift tiller
Nov 12, 2023
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Round Hill, Alberta, Canada
Over the phone free diagnostic advice is worth every penny you paid for it. Especially when advice carries on to bring your thing here and trade it in on our new stuff.

Lifting the boom takes way more hydraulic pump pressure than does tipping the empty bucket. That the loader lifts fine indicates that the pump develops pressure and flow and is probably OK.

The control valve - in your picture - is able to direct hydraulic flow/pressure independently to the boom-lift circuit indicates that the control valve is probably not fudged. Control valves are generally quite reliable, not much inside to go fudgy, and if something goes fudgy with a control valve, it usually pukes oil externally.

I still think the failure is inside one of the cylinders of the bucket-tilt, and that the piston is detached from the rod. Lift the loader up about waist high. The bucket will roll forward and extend the bucket tilt cylinders. Grab the extended bucket tilt cylinder, and push and pull on it as if trying to "bend" the cylinder assembly at the point where the rod enters the cylinder. If one cylinder wobbles more than the other, you have found your problem.

All of us providing free advice (for what thats worth) via this forum are anxiously waiting for whats actually wrong...
 

TheOldHokie

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He seemed like he was not interested in my issue. Quoted me $1900 for a cylinder then said it's not a cylinder issue (no leaks) but a pump issue etc..they have tractors...

I'll do the test later today.

Could this be the issue as well?
What am I supposed to be looking at in the picture?

Dan
 
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Fire-N-The-Hole

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L35
Mar 22, 2023
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I spoke with another mechanic. He was absolutely certain the issue is with one of the cylinders. After I took the cylinders off, I noticed the drivers side right cylinder had a free floating bolt inside. Is this the issue? Taking both cylinders out for new seals since they are not indtalled.
 

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TheOldHokie

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I spoke with another mechanic. He was absolutely certain the issue is with one of the cylinders. After I took the cylinders off, I noticed the drivers side right cylinder had a free floating bolt inside. Is this the issue? Taking both cylinders out for new seals since they are not indtalled.
If by that you mean the nut has come off the end of the rod that is your problem.

Hàve you been given a price for overhauling the cylinders?

Dan